Comments on: Model 1000LP One-Piece Rest From TargetShooting.com

By: JoeF

JoeF — Tue, 28 Dec 2010 03:13:05 +0000

Ed,

I’m glad you responded and will try and clarify a few of your concerns. First off you are correct with the statement the front and rear bags are not truly aligned when using the windage after initial setup. I’ve found this area not to be of any concern in either rimfire or centerfire. Those in rim-fire BR who use two piece setups do not move their rear bag to compensate for the alignment in relation to the front bag for windage, that would be unproductive and do more harm than good. The relation to how many times our rifles are actually moved shooting a card for score is a bunch. I was taught using a two piece rest that setup was crucial for accuracy.

When using a joystick rest or any other front pedestal with a low recoil rifle on a bench shooting for score the time spent to re-align the rear bag when moving windage IMO is wasted, and missed opportunities with the conditions under the clock. Big calibers or shooting F-Class I agree the bag can shift.

When Paul stated I shot 20,000 rds. on one piece rests he was being kind, it’s well over 100,000 rds, on a variety of different one and 2 piece rests. I knew this rest wasn’t designed for score shooting but heck why not give it a go. Now the thing that blew me away is I did not shoot in ideal conditions, we had gusts to 15 mph with a lot of switch when I started my first card. The only time I would consider ideal conditions is 2 other perfect scores that were shot 2 days later and not mentioned at my request. The other thing that wasn’t mentioned is, there were no other cards shot in between those 6 perfect cards and have never done this with any rest period!

With all due respect, science won’t be of much help. I rely on time spent behind a rifle testing and practicing. What the end results show me on paper is all the science I need to tell me if I’m going in the right direction.

I did do a test with 4 one piece rests I own after the fact and the findings were eye opening to say the least. You would be surprised how much rests and what fill is used influence the accuracy of a rifle.

Kind Regards,

Joe

By: Boyd Allen

Boyd Allen — Mon, 27 Dec 2010 03:27:50 +0000

Ed…buddy, one of the best rimfire shooters in the country says he likes it…a lot. This, based on a huge amount of experience shooting from just about every type of one piece, two piece, and joystick rest that have ever been built. Let me see, theoretical objections vs. highly experienced evaluation…I wonder which I should give more weight to? Gee, I don’t know; I will have to think about that one.

By: Editor

Editor — Sun, 26 Dec 2010 23:11:13 +0000

Ed,
When shooting with a detached separate rear bag, it is common (if not normal) for the rear bag to rotate slightly clockwise or counterclockwise relative to the bore axis from shot to shot. As well, it is common for the bag to migrate slightly away from its original position, particularly with heavy recoiling calibers. This is not a problem with the 1000LP rest — the rear bag doesn’t spin or migrate away — that is the point we were trying to make. Regarding the slight geometry change with front L-R windage movement, again, in the real world, the 1000LP handles this better than most set ups because the fore/aft contact surface of the rear bag is so short — the binding that you fear doesn’t seem to occur in practice. Regarding damping and vibration reduction, Joe observed a noticeable difference right from the start with this two-bag set-up compared with other high-end, one-piece rests that he owns. In fact, the maker of one of those other rests is now developing a rear sand-bag option himself (moving away from solid contact points), after testing a prototype and coming to the conclusion that “there is something to it.”

It’s not unwise to be skeptical, but Joe, who has shot over 20,000 rounds on one-piece rests, noticed a difference. As with any new system, there are subtle effects that are hard to quantify. After shooting this rest we believe that one of the reasons it works so well is a serendipitous combination of dual sandbags and the overall rest design. As for the multiple 2500s in a row, you can chalk that up to Joe’s skill, but he feels otherwise and he shot the 1000LP rest and A-B’d it with other designs. Given the opportunity to send the rest back, he also chose to purchase it. Draw your own conclusions from that.

You are absolutely right that the rest is “slower” than a joy-stick rest, which is what the article says. It is also slower than a rest which has BOTH elevation and windage control operable by the same rear hand. Based in part on Joe’s feedback, Inventor Wally Brownlee is working on a flex-drive windage control accessory that could allow one-hand control of windage and elevation. It’s uncertain whether that will soon get into production.

By: edlongrange

edlongrange — Sun, 26 Dec 2010 20:30:50 +0000

It is unclear how “your front and rear bag always stay in perfect alignment, shot after shot (bolded)” any more so than any other rest setup that is properly aligned. If you mean that the front and rear are linked together by the center beam, true – same as other center beam rigs. However, once the front rest is moved laterally (any windage adjustment off dead center), the rests are definitionally out of alignment – since the rear rest is locked and there is no ability to pivot at the rear (as best as I can tell from the article, photos, videos, and vendor’s website). That assumes the rear bag ears are relatively rigid and the rifle can only pivot “inside” the ears. That is, looking from above, if the front rest windage moves .060″ to the right (from dead center), the stock at the rear rest is now forced into the left side front corner of the right ear and away from the right side front corner of the left ear. The more the windage is adjusted the more this “binding” increases (misalignment increases). With separate front and rear bags, the rear bag can be realigned manually to compensate for the front bag’s windage movement.

This rest has the disadvantage – compared to a joy-stick front setup – of requiring the use of either both hands simultaneously or going back and forth between the front for windage and then back to the rear for elevation. In ARA-style shooting this is only a slight problem as you would probably only adjust the elevation once a row of bulls (hopefully).

The supposition of improved “vibration dampening” due to the physical connection of the front and rear rests (bags both front and rear) seems to need the support of more science. The fact that Joe shots very well is a testament, basically, to Joe (technique and skill), his equipment, his ammo, and conditions – which Joe states in the video. The fact is that this rest does not appear to have negatively impacted “Joe’s” ability to shoot very well – at least during the 24 hour period described. It will be interesting to see what setup Joe uses long term.