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	<title>Comments on: New Products Revealed in Latest Target Shooter Magazine</title>
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	<link>https://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2014/03/new-products-revealed-in-latest-target-shooter-magazine/</link>
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		<title>By: Editor</title>
		<link>https://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2014/03/new-products-revealed-in-latest-target-shooter-magazine/comment-page-1/#comment-44431</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Editor]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Mar 2014 05:13:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/?p=54521#comment-44431</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This comment send via email by Neil Gibson:

I have previously used similar, but more advanced Doppler radar devices in my previous job. These for testing small arms up to artillery rockets. The company makes more advanced systems too, both for external and internal (in-bore) velocity measurements. See their main website (www.infinition.com).

As to the triggering of the radar. Seeing as it can be used to measure non-firearms, this suggests a Doppler signal triggering in addition to the previous mentioned acoustic triggering system. In this mode the system monitors the input Doppler signal level and, when the signal rises above a certain (voltage) signal threshold, triggers the acquisition and processing of the Doppler signal (digitisation, FFT and the curve fitting or linear regression of a FFT spectra peaks). Seeing as the retardation on arrows and bolts is so low, this isn&#039;t really a problem bows and crossbows. For small arms, this would require the weapon muzzle to be near the radar head, so minimising MV calculation errors, both due to timing and geometric (look angle) errors. Neither are optimal triggering systems in noisy conditions such as a busy firing range. A flash detector or a pressure sensor that requires a high pressure level (i.e. very near the muzzle) would be a better option.

The device most likely operates at (IEEE US) X-Band, so a nominal 10.525 GHz. Going by their other devices, their power outputs and range capabilities, the device would have an output in the low milliwatt (mW) range, say 100-200 mW. Use of the device in the UK may require a radio broadcast licence.

Tracking of projectiles is RCS (radar cross section) and keeping the projectile in the beam dependant. It can track, under optimal conditions, an undisclosed .308 projectile to 100 yards. So larger (diameter) projectiles will be seen for further, smaller for shorter distances. The projectile base shape and the use of tracer ammunition will reduce the projectile RCS and hence tracking range.

Neil Gibson
Weapons Technical Analyst,
IHS Jane&#039;s]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This comment send via email by Neil Gibson:</p>
<p>I have previously used similar, but more advanced Doppler radar devices in my previous job. These for testing small arms up to artillery rockets. The company makes more advanced systems too, both for external and internal (in-bore) velocity measurements. See their main website (www.infinition.com).</p>
<p>As to the triggering of the radar. Seeing as it can be used to measure non-firearms, this suggests a Doppler signal triggering in addition to the previous mentioned acoustic triggering system. In this mode the system monitors the input Doppler signal level and, when the signal rises above a certain (voltage) signal threshold, triggers the acquisition and processing of the Doppler signal (digitisation, FFT and the curve fitting or linear regression of a FFT spectra peaks). Seeing as the retardation on arrows and bolts is so low, this isn&#8217;t really a problem bows and crossbows. For small arms, this would require the weapon muzzle to be near the radar head, so minimising MV calculation errors, both due to timing and geometric (look angle) errors. Neither are optimal triggering systems in noisy conditions such as a busy firing range. A flash detector or a pressure sensor that requires a high pressure level (i.e. very near the muzzle) would be a better option.</p>
<p>The device most likely operates at (IEEE US) X-Band, so a nominal 10.525 GHz. Going by their other devices, their power outputs and range capabilities, the device would have an output in the low milliwatt (mW) range, say 100-200 mW. Use of the device in the UK may require a radio broadcast licence.</p>
<p>Tracking of projectiles is RCS (radar cross section) and keeping the projectile in the beam dependant. It can track, under optimal conditions, an undisclosed .308 projectile to 100 yards. So larger (diameter) projectiles will be seen for further, smaller for shorter distances. The projectile base shape and the use of tracer ammunition will reduce the projectile RCS and hence tracking range.</p>
<p>Neil Gibson<br />
Weapons Technical Analyst,<br />
IHS Jane&#8217;s</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>https://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2014/03/new-products-revealed-in-latest-target-shooter-magazine/comment-page-1/#comment-44412</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Mar 2014 10:03:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/?p=54521#comment-44412</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Pongranger has said a mouthful there. If this product works the way the manufacturer claims, a number of companies will be doing a lot of backtracking I suspect.
I for one will be test the theory that barrel twist rates influence BC, and if so, at what range.
Marketing departments hate lie detectors, but lets make sure we are not being fooled by another one first.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pongranger has said a mouthful there. If this product works the way the manufacturer claims, a number of companies will be doing a lot of backtracking I suspect.<br />
I for one will be test the theory that barrel twist rates influence BC, and if so, at what range.<br />
Marketing departments hate lie detectors, but lets make sure we are not being fooled by another one first.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Pongranger</title>
		<link>https://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2014/03/new-products-revealed-in-latest-target-shooter-magazine/comment-page-1/#comment-44411</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pongranger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Mar 2014 02:59:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/?p=54521#comment-44411</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just wondering, since it tracks the bullet in flight to 100 yards, can it also give you the true ballistic coefficient? Wont the bullet companies get mad ?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just wondering, since it tracks the bullet in flight to 100 yards, can it also give you the true ballistic coefficient? Wont the bullet companies get mad ?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Neil Gibson</title>
		<link>https://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2014/03/new-products-revealed-in-latest-target-shooter-magazine/comment-page-1/#comment-44407</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Neil Gibson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2014 20:50:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/?p=54521#comment-44407</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have previously used similar but more advance Doppler radar devices in my previous job. These for testing small arms up to artillery rockets. The company makes more advanced systems too, both for external and internal (in-bore) velocity measurements. See their main website (www.infinition.com).

As to the triggering of the radar. Seeing as it can be used to measure non-firearms, this suggests a Doppler signal triggering in addition to the previous mentioned acoustic triggering system. In this mode the system monitors the input Doppler signal level and, when the signal rises above a certain (voltage) signal threshold, triggers the acquisition and processing of the Doppler signal (digitisation, FFT and the curve fitting or linear regression of a FFT spectra peaks). Seeing as the retardation on arrows and bolts is so low, this isn&#039;t really a problem bows and crossbows. For small arms, this would require the weapon muzzle to be near the radar head, so minimising MV calculation errors, both due to timing and geometric (look angle) errors. Neither are optimal triggering systems in noisy conditions such as a busy firing range. A flash detector or a pressure sensor that requires a high pressure level (i.e. very near the muzzle) would be a better option.

The device most likely operates at (IEEE US) X-Band, so a nominal 10.525 GHz. Going by their other devices, their power outputs and range capabilities, the device would have an output in the low milliwatt (mW) range,say 100-200 mW. Use of the device in the UK may require a radio broadcast licence.

Tracking of projectiles is RCS (radar cross section) and keeping the projectile in the beam dependant. It can track, under optimal conditions, an undisclosed .308 projectile to 100 yards. So larger (diameter) projectiles will be seen for further, smaller for shorter distances. The projectile base shape and the use of tracer ammunition will reduce the projectile RCS and hence tracking range.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have previously used similar but more advance Doppler radar devices in my previous job. These for testing small arms up to artillery rockets. The company makes more advanced systems too, both for external and internal (in-bore) velocity measurements. See their main website (www.infinition.com).</p>
<p>As to the triggering of the radar. Seeing as it can be used to measure non-firearms, this suggests a Doppler signal triggering in addition to the previous mentioned acoustic triggering system. In this mode the system monitors the input Doppler signal level and, when the signal rises above a certain (voltage) signal threshold, triggers the acquisition and processing of the Doppler signal (digitisation, FFT and the curve fitting or linear regression of a FFT spectra peaks). Seeing as the retardation on arrows and bolts is so low, this isn&#8217;t really a problem bows and crossbows. For small arms, this would require the weapon muzzle to be near the radar head, so minimising MV calculation errors, both due to timing and geometric (look angle) errors. Neither are optimal triggering systems in noisy conditions such as a busy firing range. A flash detector or a pressure sensor that requires a high pressure level (i.e. very near the muzzle) would be a better option.</p>
<p>The device most likely operates at (IEEE US) X-Band, so a nominal 10.525 GHz. Going by their other devices, their power outputs and range capabilities, the device would have an output in the low milliwatt (mW) range,say 100-200 mW. Use of the device in the UK may require a radio broadcast licence.</p>
<p>Tracking of projectiles is RCS (radar cross section) and keeping the projectile in the beam dependant. It can track, under optimal conditions, an undisclosed .308 projectile to 100 yards. So larger (diameter) projectiles will be seen for further, smaller for shorter distances. The projectile base shape and the use of tracer ammunition will reduce the projectile RCS and hence tracking range.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Kris</title>
		<link>https://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2014/03/new-products-revealed-in-latest-target-shooter-magazine/comment-page-1/#comment-44406</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kris]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2014 15:00:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/?p=54521#comment-44406</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What happens when you&#039;re shooting on a crowded range, with people at the benches next to you?  Does it pick up their shots too?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What happens when you&#8217;re shooting on a crowded range, with people at the benches next to you?  Does it pick up their shots too?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Wolfdawg</title>
		<link>https://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2014/03/new-products-revealed-in-latest-target-shooter-magazine/comment-page-1/#comment-44404</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wolfdawg]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2014 13:48:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/?p=54521#comment-44404</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What if you are testing at the range and there are other shooters shooting at the same time?  How do it know which rifle is mine???

Editor: That is a good question. Keep in mind, this is not a sonic device registering the sound of ammo fired with microphone. The device is directional -- you angle the orange &quot;box&quot; slightly downrange along the bullet&#039;s flight path. But we honestly don&#039;t know if the radar can pick up a shot fired from the next lane over. From the mfg&#039;s website it looks like the radar is placed about 1m to the left of the shooter, with the head of the unit at about a 45-deg angle. See more here: http://vimeo.com/83448608]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What if you are testing at the range and there are other shooters shooting at the same time?  How do it know which rifle is mine???</p>
<p>Editor: That is a good question. Keep in mind, this is not a sonic device registering the sound of ammo fired with microphone. The device is directional &#8212; you angle the orange &#8220;box&#8221; slightly downrange along the bullet&#8217;s flight path. But we honestly don&#8217;t know if the radar can pick up a shot fired from the next lane over. From the mfg&#8217;s website it looks like the radar is placed about 1m to the left of the shooter, with the head of the unit at about a 45-deg angle. See more here: <a href="http://vimeo.com/83448608" rel="nofollow">http://vimeo.com/83448608</a></p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>https://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2014/03/new-products-revealed-in-latest-target-shooter-magazine/comment-page-1/#comment-44403</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2014 12:45:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/?p=54521#comment-44403</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Are the actually made in Canada?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are the actually made in Canada?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Neil Gibson</title>
		<link>https://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2014/03/new-products-revealed-in-latest-target-shooter-magazine/comment-page-1/#comment-44402</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Neil Gibson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2014 08:44:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/?p=54521#comment-44402</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Previously used these in my old job for for tracking small-arms to rocket artillery projectiles, but never thought I&#039;d see these available to the public!

Range is 100 yards with a .308 projectile. The range for smaller and larger projectiles will vary with their radar cross section (RCS). The projectile base shape effects the RCS, as does the use of tracers.

No details on the transmitting frequency or the processing system. Most likely digitisation of the Doppler signal, fast Fourier transformation (FFT) of this and then curve-fitting or linear regressions or a series of spectra peaks.

It&#039;s use in the UK may require a broadcasting licence, all depends on the transmitting frequency and power output.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Previously used these in my old job for for tracking small-arms to rocket artillery projectiles, but never thought I&#8217;d see these available to the public!</p>
<p>Range is 100 yards with a .308 projectile. The range for smaller and larger projectiles will vary with their radar cross section (RCS). The projectile base shape effects the RCS, as does the use of tracers.</p>
<p>No details on the transmitting frequency or the processing system. Most likely digitisation of the Doppler signal, fast Fourier transformation (FFT) of this and then curve-fitting or linear regressions or a series of spectra peaks.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s use in the UK may require a broadcasting licence, all depends on the transmitting frequency and power output.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>https://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2014/03/new-products-revealed-in-latest-target-shooter-magazine/comment-page-1/#comment-44398</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rob]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2014 20:10:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/?p=54521#comment-44398</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Of course just when the &quot;latest&quot; chrono -magnetic - has been added the latest &quot;latest&quot; -doppler- shows up. RL]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course just when the &#8220;latest&#8221; chrono -magnetic &#8211; has been added the latest &#8220;latest&#8221; -doppler- shows up. RL</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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