Comments on: Living History — Custer’s Ghost and the Trapdoor Springfield

By: Richard

Richard — Wed, 26 Jun 2019 20:42:25 +0000

Umm. Islandwana – the battle proper lasted about an hour and resulted in a massacre for the British. Rorke’s Drift was a fortification and lasted over 12 hours.

At no point did I say anything about the case rim – I said jams and stoppages. Both rifles heat up fast regardless of the ammunition used. The big difference is speed of reloading with the Trapdoor being very fiddly when you are not under pressure, let alone when an angry man is coming at you.

And Lord Chelmsford and GEN Custer shared many of the same characteristics – Custer was on the very end of the spectrum however.

By: ERWIN F SELL

ERWIN F SELL — Wed, 26 Jun 2019 18:55:35 +0000

author is biased as his conclusion represent the view that the defeat of both armies depend in the leaders only.An opinion which is still debated and not prooved yet.

By: Rich Kayser

Rich Kayser — Wed, 26 Jun 2019 17:20:46 +0000

Trapdoor issues did NOT cause the massacre . I have owned over a dozen originals over the last forty years. A ratio of about forty to one indians VS US troops, in a hilly environment did. The soldiers dismounted, and formed small groups; with every fifth man detailed to hold the horses with most of the troopers load of ammunition on the saddles. The Lakota simply fired volleys of arrows at them, which stampeded the horses. Lakota accounts stated that they ran over the small four to six man groups as they ran low or out of ammunition. I worked on the crew that did the cataloging back in 1984 after the fire. 45-70 and 50-70 cases recovered did not show (most of them) the issue with tearing the case rim loose that would have tied up the rifles.
IMHO, Custer’s men would not have rapid fired at the indians, they did not have the ammunition OR the time to do so. They were simply too few and too scattered to have lasted very long. Especially against a force of skirmishers using the terrain and the clumps of trees in the ravines.

As far as a comparison to Isandlwana, Apples to Oranges. The native forces in Africa did not have horses. If they had, IMHO, that battle would have lasted about an hour, with the same result as here.

That said, Trapdoors are pretty cool, and I sometimes regret selling mine to collectors. I am making do, however, with my Sharps.

By: Richard

Richard — Tue, 25 Jun 2019 20:59:09 +0000

I have played with one of these and immediately understood why Custer’s men had trouble in a rapid fire situation with jams and stoppages. An awful interim solution to surplus arms.

When you compare this with the Martini Henry at Isandlwana and Rorke’s Drift (Jan 1879), three years later, you can see the obvious differences in dealing with the rifles over-heating.

Isandlwana is a closer scenario with no fortifications, but evidence of sustained volley fire from squares did do damage to a numerically superior force with less evidence of stoppages.

Needless to say, both these scenarios should never have happened if the leadership was sane and sensible.