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April 22nd, 2011

Advice for Buying and Selling Products in Forum Classifieds

If you want to buy or sell rifles, stocks, barrels, reloading equipment, cartridge components, and shooting accessories, you’ll find an active Marketplace area in our Shooters’ Forum. If you are a registered Forum Member, you can post Classified Ads for FREE — that’s right, there’s no charge. With over 14,100 members in the Forum now, buyers will find plenty of bargains, and sellers will find a receptive audience for their products.

As the number of transactions in the Forum Marketplace has grown dramatically, we’ve seen some misunderstandings arise, despite the many guidelines we have in place. When there is a problem, most of the time it relates to shipping delays or damage in transit. But there have also been issues involving description of a sale item, or confusion over the terms of the deal.

To help avoid disappointments or misunderstandings when using the Marketplace, this article provides tips on buying and selling through the Classifieds. Follow our advice, and you should have a good experience with our online Classified Ads. And the steps we suggest should serve you equally well when purchasing gun stuff on other firearms forums.

Five Most Important Tips for Buyers –

1. Don’t buy expensive items if the seller does not provide good photos or a complete description. Copy the text of the ad and write down any additional communications with the seller.

2. Check the seller’s feedback and ask plenty of questions. Absolutely do NOT purchase any item from a seller who will not provide a valid return address or phone number.

3. With rifles, stocks, used optics, and electronic items, insist on a reasonable inspection period. Three to five business days is reasonable for a gun or stock.

4. Insist that the item is insured and tracked. Make sure you understand whether buyer or seller pays for shipping, insurance, and tracking.

5. Don’t go ballistic if you post “I’ll take it” and you don’t get the deal. The seller may have received other offers by Private Message, email or other mode of communication. The seller also has the right to evaluate details of the transaction (and your offer) before committing to sell. Remember — if you never paid anything you don’t have a loss. Man up and move on.

Advice For Marketplace BUYERS

Know What You’re Buying! – Make sure there are good product photos and a complete description of the product. For example, with a rifle, make sure the chambering, twist rate, barrel length etc. are fully explained. Copy the text of the advert, and KEEP RECORDS of everything the seller tells you! That way, if the item you receive is different than what was advertised you’ll have “evidence” to support your return request. I would say that in two-thirds of the “problem transactions” that have come to my attention, the buyer never saved a copy of the original advert, and failed, as well, to save his email interchanges with the seller. I’ve seen situations where a buyer claimed to be entitled to extra parts along with a gun, but he had no evidence that such items were ever part of the deal.

Check the Seller’s Credentials and Trade History – Check out the Trader Feedback on the seller of the product. In our Marketplace section, both buyers and sellers can leave feedback on a transaction. Check out the seller’s credentials before you buy.

Do Your Pricing Homework – Find out the “ballpark” value of an item before you agree to purchase. That way you’ll protect yourself from paying too much, AND you’ll have an early warning on possible scams. The old adage is still true: “if a deal seems too good to be true, it probably is”.

Ask for an Inspection Period – By all means, negotiate an inspection period for expensive items. I personally would never purchase a gun, barrel, stock, action, or used optic without some inspection period. I cannot over-stress the importance of the inspection period. Most sellers will allow an inspection period on an expensive item. Just make sure you understand which party must pay return shipping if you decide to send the item back. The inspection period gives you a chance to take a close look at the product. That is key. I would say 95% of the disputes presented to me as Forum Boss (other than late delivery questions) would have been eliminated if the buyer had asked for an inspection period. I recall one situation where the buyer complained because a gun’s barrel turned out to be shorter than it appeared in a photo. With an inspection period, he would have protected himself.

Insist on Insurance and Tracking – If you’re paying more than $50.00 or so for an item, tell the buyer to include insurance and insist on shipment tracking. It’s a sad truth, but expensive stuff gets lost, delayed, and damaged ALL the TIME. Among deliveries we’ve received ourselves, we’ve seen damaged stocks, bent barrels, and broken optics. The process of package delivery can cause some serious damage, believe me.

Be Patient and Don’t Freak Out if Items Are Delayed – It is not that uncommon for packages to take as much as three weeks to make it across the country — even when shipped “three-day” or priority mail. Unfortunately all the carriers — USPS, Fedex, and UPS — will have a badly stalled shipment now and then. I frequently get frantic emails from Forum Members saying “the item I bought off the classifieds hasn’t arrived. The seller is a crook and I want you to burn down his house — right now!” In some cases such messages arrive only a few days after the ship date. I tell these members to initiate tracking and wait three weeks before going ballistic. In 99.5% of these situations, the goods eventually arrived. Of course, once it appears an item is really delayed, get in touch with the seller and have him chase down the problem. If, after a month has passed with no delivery, instruct the seller to file an insurance claim. If the seller refuses to do so, or it really appears he failed to ship, contact the Forum Boss. He will contact the seller, and, if necessary, turn the matter over to the authorities.

Use Secure Payment Methods – Never send cash in a mailed envelope, not even certified mail. Certified mail is really not that secure. For major items, we suggest using postal money orders, delivered via Fedex. This does give you some recourse in the event of a fraudulent sale — though it is certainly not easy to get the USPS to go to bat for you. If you purchase from a business, use a credit card if possible. The major credit card companies can reverse the charges if you fail to receive an item you’ve paid for, or if the seller refuses to take back a defective item.

“I’ll Take It” vs. “Meeting of the Minds” – Many buyers are disappointed when they post “I’ll take it” and the deal doesn’t go through, or the item sells to someone else. What buyers need to realize is that there must be a “meeting of the minds” of BOTH buyer AND seller as to all the material (important) terms of the transaction before the seller is obligated to sell. Price is only one term. There are many other factors that may need to be worked out. For example, the gun may not be legal to ship to a particular jurisdiction. Or, the cost of shipping may exceed what the would-be buyer is willing to pay. While it is always disappointing to lose a good deal, shoppers can avoid disappointment (and keep their blood pressure at safe levels) if they realize that simply posting “I’ll take it” does not, normally, close the deal.

Five Most Important Tips for Sellers –

1. Provide a thorough product description and multiple quality photos. Always disclose any noteworthy flaws in the product before you take the buyer’s money.

2. NEVER ship valuable items before receiving payment.

3. Always insure valuable items, and get tracking for your shipments.

4. Check out the buyers’ feedback, and make sure you agree to the proposed method (and timing) of payment.

5. Reserve the right to evaluate multiple offers, and state clearly that you are NOT committing to do the deal until all important concerns are worked out. Tell buyers that you retain the right to say “no deal” if a buyer is not qualified, or if you and he fail to agree on essential terms such as method of payment, insurance, and inspection period.

Advice For Marketplace SELLERS

Provide Plenty of Good Photos and Disclose Defects – Good photos are really important. Good photos will help you sell your product faster, and get the best price. Moreover, clear, sharp photos eliminate potential misunderstandings. You don’t want to post a fuzzy photo and then have the buyer balk because the real stock appears different than the picture. If there is a major ding in the stock — show that in a photo. Under our Forum rules, you are required to disclose damage or defects that would affect the utility or the value of the product. Don’t be sly and try to cover something up — that’s unethical and it only results in eventual conflict with the buyer.

Qualify Your Buyers – You are not obligated to accept the first offer, if you state you reserve the right to approve potential buyers. If an offer comes in, check out the potential buyer’s feedback on the Forum, and you might check on other sites as well. A little research can save you big headaches later.

Ship Promptly — After receiving payment, try to pack and ship the item within four (4) days of the payment, and no later than one week. If you are paid by check, ship within four (4) days of the check successfully clearing your bank. The number one complaint among Marketplace buyers is that the goods they purchased did not arrive in a timely fashion.

Insure Your Shipment – For any item worth more than $50.00 we would insure the shipment. This will protect against a lost shipment and will compensate for damage that may occur in transit. Recently we’ve seen too many rifle stocks damaged in shipment. You can safeguard against this by double boxing and carefully padding the item, but your ultimate recourse is via insurance. Be sure to insure for true replacement cost.

Include Insurance Costs – Because we consider insurance essential for nearly all items, you should include the cost of insurance in your asking price. This way, if the buyer foolishly refuses to pay for insurance, you can still afford to purchase coverage. If you don’t include insurance in the asking price, have a statement such as this in your ad: “Buyer is responsible for actual shipping cost, including insurance and tracking fees.”

Get Tracking for Your Package – With some modes of shipment, tracking is an optional extra. Fedex tracks everything by default. But if you ship USPS, you may have to pay extra to get tracking. Again, we recommend you always get package tracking for items worth $50.00 or more. Include the price of tracking in the statement of shipping costs. If you don’t build that into the asking price, then at least include the following in your advert: “Buyer is responsible for actual shipping cost, including insurance and tracking fees.”

Pack the Item Securely – If you want to avoid disputes with purchasers, pack your items very securely. You should pack items to survive a 12-foot drop and an afternoon in the rain. If you are sending extra parts (such as scope rings) with a gun, bubble wrap them separately and secure them in the box so they will not shift around. I had one nice blued revolver come back from a smith. The smith had tossed in the old trigger parts he had replaced along with the gun in a foam-padded box. During shipment, the trigger parts scraped back and forth on the gun, ruining the high-gloss blued finish. Stocks are particularly vulnerable. We suggest placing a stock between heavy foam layers, or make a cardboard “splint” to protect the exterior, and to shield the forearm tip and the vulnerable wrist area. Then bubble-wrap the entire stock and put it inside a heavy shipping box. When sending a rifle, we strongly recommend you ship the gun in a plastic hard case, then place the case inside a second, heavy-duty cardboard box. Before shipping, make sure the buyer understands who is paying for the shipping box. We recommend stating right in your advert: “In addition to actual shipping costs, I will charge $XX for a shipping box.”

Disclose Concurrent Listings – Buyers get upset if they see an item, post “I’ll take it”, then find that the item has already sold. For this reason it is MANDATORY for all Marketplace sellers to disclose if the item is for sale elsewhere. What does that mean? Well if you are listing the gun on, or on another shooting Forum, or if you even have it up for sale in your local club newsletter, you need to disclose that. This eliminates misunderstandings.

Reserve the Right to Say ‘No’ to Any Offer – Even if a buyer posts “I’ll take it”, there are many potential reasons why you may not want to sell to that party: 1) he may not be eligible to own the item; 2) he may not agree to an acceptable mode (and schedule) of payment; 3) he may have negative feedback, or otherwise have a bad reputation; 4) after discussion, you may conclude your product is really not suitable for the buyer, despite what the buyer may think; 5) the buyer may try to change the terms of his offer during negotiation. As the seller, you are entitled to say “no deal” in these (and many other) circumstances. But this will upset some buyers and they will complain. To avoid complaints, you should include language in your advert that gives you an “out” when the offer is flawed or the buyer is not qualified. In your ad you should include a line saying that you reserve the right to consider multiple offers, and that no deal is final until you review the buyer’s qualifications, and until both parties agree to all important aspects of three transaction.

Here is language you might use: “This item remains for sale until ALL arrangements are finalized with a buyer I deem, in my sole discretion, to be qualified. I reserve the right to consider multiple offers, and no offer will create a binding contract until I am satisfied with buyer qualifications, mode and terms of payment, and until all details of shipping (including insurance, packaging requirements, shipping costs, and risk of loss) are worked out. [Optional: This item is offered for sale on other internet sites.]”

Or, if you want something less legalistic, you can simply state: “No deals are final until we work out all the details over the telephone. Be aware there may be multiple offers on the table.”

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April 22nd, 2011

Out-of-Battery Firing Injures Big-Bore Shooter

As posted in the a while back, there was a nasty out-of-battery firing incident involving a BOHICA Arms .510 DTC AR15 upper. The cause of the out-of-battery firing is not certain but it appears that the ammo was not sized properly and the firing pin may have been stuck in the extended position. As a result, the round went off before the bolt was closed with the lugs seated. In the process, the bolt handle broke off, as the bolt retracted violently, actually ending up outside the bolt raceway.

The shooter was badly injured, with multiple broken bones and ligament damage to his left hand and tissue damage to his right hand. The shooter was holding the rifle with his left hand near the front of the chamber where a gas vent was located. Gas and shrapnel existed the vent hole causing the severe injuries to the left hand.

From range reports, it appears that the shooter had been struggling to chamber previous rounds, and was having trouble closing the bolt. After talking with one of the rangemasters, a poster on reported: “The guy was using new reloads that weren’t exactly fitting well into his chamber. [The shooter] was slamming the bolt handle with his palm trying to get the cases to lock in. The guy was also slamming the bolt forward full force from the rearmost position back and forth trying to ram the cases into chamber in an attempt to squeeze the rounds in so the bolt could close. Finally, on one of the attempts … the possibly stuck firing pin rams into the primer and explodes the round when he slams the bolt forward (zero lug engagement hence the KB) and shooter puts himself into a world of hurt.”

Lessons Learned — Don’t Try to Force Oversize Ammo into a Chamber
By all reports, the shooter’s ammo wasn’t fitting his chamber properly. In an effort to force the ammo into the chamber, he worked the bolt with excessive force. That MAY have caused the firing pin to extend or the hammer to fall without the trigger being pulled. One theory is that the trigger system may have been modified, allowing the hammer to fall from the force of slamming the bolt forward. Others have speculated that the firing pin may have failed to retract because the bolt handle was over-torqued — a safety issue listed in the BOHICA manual.

Whatever caused the out-of-battery firing, it appears that improperly-sized ammo (or a poorly-cut chamber) was the root cause of the problems. If you go to a range and find your bolt does not close easily over the ammo — STOP SHOOTING — don’t try to force the issue. Disaster may result. To paraphrase Johnnie Cochran: “If the ammo doesn’t fit, it’s time to quit”.

Photos by Wildcard, originally posted on

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April 22nd, 2011

Hornady Bullets on SALE, Plus FREE Shipping & Handling

hornady bullet is running a big sale right now on Hornady Bullets with many very popular projectiles marked down 12%.

And to sweeten the deal, for the next week, is waiving its $4.95 handling/insurance fee on any orders worth $60.00 or more. Graf’s already offers free shipping on most products, so this is a good deal, even if you’re only going to buy a couple boxes of bullets. Here are some of the Hornady Bullet Discounts:

  • 20gr V-MAX BULLET (.172, 100/box)
    $15.39 on sale, 12% savings
    Item #RN21710
  • 40gr V-MAX BULLET (.224, 100/box)
    $15.39 on sale, 12% savings
    Item #HRN22241
  • 50gr V-MAX BULLET (.224, 100/box)
    $15.39 on SALE, 12% savings
    Item #HRN22261
    • 58gr V-MAX BULLET (6mm, 100/Box)
      $17.79 on sale, 10% savings
      Item #HRN22411
    • 120gr A-MAX BULLET (6.5mm, 100/box)
      $23.59 on sale, 8% savings
      Item #HRN26172
    • 168gr BTHP MATCH BULLET (.308, 100/box)
      $23.99 on sale, 10% savings
      Item #HRN30501

    FREE Freight and No-Charge Handling/Insurance with $60 Purchase will waive the handling and insurance charge ($4.95 value) when you order at least $60 worth of in-stock merchandise. Freight is ALWAYS prepaid to the 48 states on regular ground service only except for target load ammo (see terms of service for details). Offer excludes closeout items and target loads. Offer expires Thursday, April 28th at midnight CST. NOTE: Hazmat and other special fees are NOT included. Call 800-531-2666 for any questions. shipping promotion

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