One Cartridge Case, Two Shots, Exact Same FPS, and 0.1” Group
Is a ZERO extreme spread possible? Yes. Lou Murdica proved that, with AMP-annealed cases, and advanced reloading methods, you can achieve the exact same muzzle velocity — 2924 FPS for two shots in a row. Oh, and the accuracy wasn’t too bad either. Shooting in a tunnel with an F-Open rig on the bench, Lou put two rounds within 0.1 inch. Note, the rounds were fired with the wood-stocked F-Open/Benchrest rifle on the left, not the Rail Gun on the right. The full annealing and reloading process is shown in the video below:
See Complete Testing and Reloading Process in 3-minute Video!
We highly recommend you watch this video ALL the way through, and then watch it again. You will see one of the best shooters in the world loading precision ammo. Lou is a world-class short-range benchrest, long-range benchrest, and F-Class shooter. In this video you can see Lou load a cartridge start to finish, beginning with annealing using a computer-controlled AMP induction annealing machine.
After firing, the 6.5 Creedmoor case was annealed with the AMP induction annealer.
Here is Lou Murdica’s Reloading Procedure Used in this Test:
1. Anneal 6.5 Creedmoor cartridge in AMP Mk II Annealer.
2. Lubricate case with Imperial Case Wax.
3. Full-length size case with Redding FL bushing die in single-stage RCBS Big Max Press.
4. Apply Moly dry lube to inside of case-neck with brush.
After FL Sizing, and before bullet seating, Murdica applies dry Moly lube inside the case-neck.
5. Seat Primer with Bald Eagle Precision Primer Press.
6. Throw charge to within 1 kernel with Auto-Trickler System and Force Restoration Lab Scale.
7. Drop charge in case with precision funnel.
8. Seat bullet with hand die and Sinclair Arbor Press.
Two Rounds, Same Case, Both with Exact Same Velocity — 2924 FPS
If you watch the video, you can see that, for the second 6.5 Creedmoor round, the velocity is 2924 FPS. That is exactly the same velocity as shot number 1. So the two-shot Extreme Spread (ES) is Zero. The second shot was 0.1″ from shot number one — pretty close to one hole. Lou was using Vihtavuori powder and Berger AR bullets. On the screen, Oehler Ballistic Instrumentation software displays bullet velocities and impact locations using inputs from chronograph and acoustic target sensors.
Credit Boyd Allen for identifying Oehler System and RCBS Big Max Press.
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Tags: 6.5 Creedmoor, AMP Annealer, Extreme Spread, Lou Murdica, Ohler 85 Ballistic, RCBS Big Max, Tunnel Test
Now sample size = 2 is worthy of note?
All 6.5 Creedmoors are capable of shooting 2 shot groups in the 1’s.
Too small a sample population.
Isn’t that Wilson FL bushing die??
Editor: On the YouTube hosting page, the AMP folks say the die was a Redding FL bushing die with no expander.
What’s next?
One shot groups?
Maybe they only published the results on two shots because shot three blew the group and velocity?
Editor: No. The point was to show, in a 3-minute video, the same cartridge annealed, reloaded step-by-step (with no edits) and shot. And For those who think duplicating the exact same velocity and drilling one shot right on top of another, even one, is easy — go try to do that yourself. The real point of the video was to show the annealing and reloading process that makes this kind of consistency possible.
Lou has more hours shooting accurate rifles in a tunnel testing every conceivable component and variable than anyone that I have ever heard or read about. He has the resources to look at the whole spectrum of possibilities. Given all of that, just learning exactly how he does things, from something as unambiguous as this video, is pure gold. The two shot group is secondary. The real story, for me, is how he loads, and his equipment choices. Few of us have the luxury of being able to test everything in a tunnel before we take it out into the “real world” where the wind blows and mirage makes aiming less than totally precise, so when I learn how Lou does something, I pay close attention, and put it in long term memory. I suggest that you might want to consider doing the same.
What acoustic target was he using?
Is the front rest a LENZI—Nice
Thanks Lou and those that made the video.
Do I win something for firing 3 consecutive rounds in a row with the same FPS?
“advanced reloading methods”…like no case prep (no neck turning, no primer pocket or flash hole uniforming, no case mouth chamfering), no wind shield on the scale… What part of this 2-shot promo for the AMP unit is “advanced”? And then, as noted, the extremely unscientific, unsupportable (advanced?) use of a sample size of 2 from which to draw a conclusion about anything. Wow? Brave new world!
I want this guy’s man cave. What a setup!!!
“I want this guy’s man cave”
Gee, I dunno. Do you have any idea what it would cost to dig up that 100yd tunnel and deliver it?
I understand what this article is trying to show.
However this is not real world data, but more like cherry picked selective data.
If this was a 10-shot string with sub 10 fps ES I would be VERY impressed.
I don’t even take 5-shots strings seriously when it comes to ES and SD.
Oscar,
He does not need a wind shield when loading indoors. ( He uses one when loading outdoors.)You have no idea what case prep was done, because the video does not cover that. The tidbits are that he uses moly in his necks and the way he applies it, with no other work after annealing. You can bet that he has tried every other option and that is what he found to work best. You could also see how easy and fast annealing after every shot is using the AMP annealer. I have flame annealed and is is not something that I would do at the range during a short range group match. He does, because it is so quick and easy. Lou brings extensive competition experience to the table, in multiple rifle accuracy sports, and has extensive tunnel testing experience of many components and techniques. Rather than take cheap shots, perhaps you should go to a match and try to beat him sometime. Perhaps then you will show him the respect that he deserves.
Boyd – where in the world did you get that I disrespected Lou? His “results” speak for themselves – match results. Trying to make a statement with a sample size of two (2) is my grief. BTW, since when are lubing the inside of case necks and annealing brass anything “advanced”? And to suggest that not using shields inside is not needed because he is in a tunnel…labs use shields in the most controlled environments in the world, much better controlled than such a tunnel environment.
Boyd, do you happen to know what moly kit Lou is using for the inside of the case necks. Seems this may help with the long range shooting that I do.
Paul
Oscar,
Lubing the inside of necks is not new, but the whole issue of whether necks need to be cleaned after annealing then what specifically you do to make the seating forces more uniform has been the topic of many discussions. I have spoken with winners of 1,000 yard nationals who all did different reloading based on each of their testing, but since the main issue of how necks are done, and for that matter how precisely powder is weighed is uniformity of velocity, even though I agree that more shots are needed I think that he was trying to give a snapshot of his method. On the scale draft shield, the only way to know what the air draft situation in his shooting room is would be to observe the scale readout, to see if it needed protection. I am sure that he has that available, since I have seen that same setup at a short range benchrest match with draft protection, although he does not use it all of the time for that application, since he has had good result with thrown charges.
To answer a question, the electronic target is part of an Oehler 43 Lab.
Getting back to my die comment, it’s def -not- a Redding die despite the commentary. It’s a fully polished stainless die, not a hint of black ring nor knurling on it
do that again!
I’ve been shooting for a long time and I save most targets–I actually have a shed on the back property full of LR targets. I also record most information on an excel sheet. This makes seeing the big picture, based on real data, so much easier.
Anyway, when I looked at velocity measurements for some groups I found quite a few five shot groups that had the same velocity for the first two or three shots.
I even remember shooting new Lapua .308 and had four of the first five shots report the same velocity (it was 43 grains of Varget by the way).
And there were countless other five shot groups that had the same velocity repeated consecutively, just not on the first and second shot–some were the third and fourth or fourth and fifth shots. Some groups had two velocities repeated twice also. My point is, this is really easy to do and I’ve done it quite a few times without an AMP.
Also, everyone who reads this is saying why didn’t you keep going beyond two shots. Two shots leaves more questions than answers. If you are trying to prove what the AMP will do, then actually show us. Shoot 20 shots and give us some real information.
And to those who say we should consider this gold–all I can say is you are not looking at this objectively. He taught us nothing in the video. He might be the greatest shooter in the world, but this video didn’t give any insight into how he became that. I already know to buy the best equipment I can afford–that’s kind of a no brainer. I also know the order to reload, again a no brainer.
And this is not a disrespect comment. It is a non-emotional critique of a video featuring a man I don’t know and have never met–thus I have no emotional ties to him and can asses his video without bias.
PMH – well said.
Thanks Chris-NZ
The Full-Length Sizing installed in Lou’s RCBS single stage is definitely an L.E. Wilson Full-Length Bushing-Type Sizing Die. It’s not a Redding FL bushing die. The Redding die is drastically different and is longer.
https://lewilson.com/wilson-full-length-sizing-die-bushing-type
I would like to know what cotton brush he is using on the redding neck brush handle.
Editor: Lou provided the information.