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March 15th, 2010
We have a “Palma/Tactical” project gun in the works built with an Eliseo chassis, Borden action, and one of Krieger’s very first 5R barrels. Initial load testing with Hodgdon Varget showed excellent accuracy potential, but we weren’t achieving the velocity we hoped to get from the 30″ medium-Palma-contour barrel. With Lapua brass and Varget we ran short of case capacity when seating bullets to mag-length, and the best accuracy came at about 2860 fps, well under competitive Palma velocities.
Mark LaFevers with .308 Win Eliseo Tubegun on SEB NEO front coaxial rest. Mark made the wood front bag-rider.
Chris Hodgdon kindly shipped us some H4895 and some of the new IMR 8208 XBR powder, lot #1022510-4798. In beautiful 70° conditions yesterday, we did a quick pressure work-up with both powders to determine “practical max” loads with the Berger 155.5gr Fullbore bullets (#30416). The 155.5s were loaded in once-fired Lapua brass with CCI BR2 primers, to a COAL of 2.860″, which is about .010″ short of land contact.
Varget-beating Speeds from Both IMR 8208 XBR and H4895
We loaded up two rounds at each charge weight, starting with the Hodgdon’s recommended starter load for a 155gr Sierra HPBT, as found in Hodgdon’s online Reloading Data Center. (There was no load listed for the 155.5gr Berger). It’s good that we started low because we saw immediately that both the 8208 XBR and the H4895 were yielding much more velocity, grain for grain, than Varget. Though we were not shooting for groups, the 8208 XBR also seemed to have a very large accuracy load window. Moreover, the velocity spreads for each two-round 8208 charge (above 43.0 grains) were remarkably low — none were more than 6 fps, and the velocities on our two 44.0-grain shots were exactly the same — 2992 fps. (This was NOT an error — the chron registered both shots #7 and #8.)
Of course, you can’t conclude much about ES/SD from just two shots, but the speed consistency in the 8208 was notable as you can see from the chart above. By contrast, each pair of H4895 shots varied in speed much more. For example, the two-shot ES for 43.0 grains of H4895 was 14 fps, while the two-shot 8208 XBR spread (for 43.0 grains) was 4 fps. It will be interesting to see if further testing confirms the low ES/SD potential of IMR 8208 XBR in the .308 Winchester.
We dispensed charges with an RCBS ChargeMaster calibrated and leveled on a granite bed. The 8208 XBR has smaller kernels than either Varget or H4895 and, as we expected, 8208 XBR dispensed very easily. The H4895, with longer kernels, dispensed fine in the ChargeMaster, but it took the machine more time to trickle the H4895.
As noted, we didn’t shoot for groups, but the IMR 8208 looked like it would shoot really well at anywhere from 43.0 to 44.0 grains. The H4895 proved accurate as well, at least in the high pressure ranges. We need to do 5-shot testing, over flags, before drawing any real conclusions. But right now we can say that, if you’re shooting a .308 with 150-155 grain bullets, you should definitely try the IMR 8208 XBR. It looks like a near-perfect match for the Palma-class bullets. The velocity is great, it appears the ES will be very low, and 8208 XBR packs more densely than Varget so you won’t have to run compressed loads.
Our most important discovery was that both 8208 XBR and H4895 offered significant velocity gains over Varget, at least in this rifle. It looks like 8208 XBR can run 2990 fps in this gun without pressure issues, while H4895 may top 3000 fps. Varget struggled to get much past 2900 fps.
IMPORTANT WARNING: The stated max load for IMR 8208 XBR with a Sierra 155gr HPBT was 45.3 grains, while the stated max load for H4895 (same bullet) was 46.0 grains. Note that, in this rifle, which has a tight 0.298″ Palma bore, we hit pressure limits well before reaching Hodgdon’s “book max.” Read that again carefully folks. Our 44.0 grain “practical max” for 8208 XBR was a FULL GRAIN less than the stated max load with a Sierra 155-grainer. Likewise we started getting stiff bolt lift at 44.3 grains of H4895 — a long way from the 46.0 grain stated max. So, the combination of a different bullet, and a tighter-than-normal bore made a significant difference in pressures. This is why, if you change ANY component in a load recipe you MUST start low for safety. And never assume that a factory “Max Load” is safe or “conservative”.
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January 28th, 2010
 We know many of our readers are interested in the new IMR 8208 XBR powder distributed by Hodgdon Powder Company. Early test lots of this new propellant have already won important benchrest matches, and field testing has shown that it is extremely stable across a wide temperature range. At SHOT Show 2010, we interviewed Chris Hodgdon, who gave us the “inside story” on this new powder. Before we started taping, Chris shared with us lab test results showing how pressure of a fixed load varied with ambient temperature. The data was stunning. Basically 8208 XBR showed almost constant pressures from below freezing to well over 100° F. This editor has personally never seen a powder test that revealed “flat-line” results like 8208 XBR, with recorded pressures remaining virtually unchanged over a huge temperature range. If the test results are to be believed, this is indeed a very exceptional powder.
On some internet Forums, skeptics have suggested that IMR 8208 XBR is just an “odd lot of H322″, and that, accordingly, 8208 XBR may not be available for long. Chris told us that the skeptics are misinformed — those who have suggested that 8208 XBR is re-labeled H322 are completely wrong. IMR 8208 XBR IS something new and it IS here to stay. IMR 8208 XBR is NOT merely a “tweaked” blend of H322. Though 8208 XBR has small kernels like H322, allowing it to meter well, 8208 XBR is a completely new formulation. Moreover, IMR 8208 XBR is not going to be a “one-production-run” wonder. Chris explained that Hodgdon is fully committed to long-term production of this new powder. So if you acquire some now, and develop a great load, rest assured that you will be able to obtain more IMR 8208 XBR in the future. As Chris explains in the interview, Hodgdon is strongly committed to IMR 8208 XBR and Hodgdon plans to keep it in production for a long time.
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December 21st, 2009
 Grafs.com has received a large shipment of the new IMR 8208 XBR powder. This is good news as Powder Valley recently sold out. Grafs.com has both 8-lb jugs for $149.99 (item IMR82088) as well as smaller 1-lb containers for $21.99 (item IMR82081).
If you haven’t heard about IMR 8208 XBR, this is a very promising new powder that is very accurate, meters well, and is much less temp sensitive than other powders of similar burn rate. This powder should be ideal for many applications including .223 Rem, .204 Ruger, 6 PPC, and .308 Winchester. Will 8208 XBR work in a 6BR or Dasher with heavy bullets? We’ll let you know soon — we’re planning to test it ourselves with an 8-twist 6mm BR.
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December 18th, 2009
We just spoke to Bryan at Powder Valley. He confirmed that right now (0800 PST, Friday, Dec. 18th), Powder Valley has some IMR 8208 XBR on the shelves. All the 8-lb jugs are sold out, but Powder Valley still has roughly 100 1-lb bottles of IMR 8208 XBR. The price is $19.00 per pound, PLUS haz-mat and shipping.
Those interested in trying this promising new powder should contact Powder Valley immediately. Log on to powdervalleyinc.com or call (800) 227-4299.
If you want this powder, then act quickly. It may sell out within a few hours.
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December 17th, 2009
IMR 8208 XBR is a new powder to be released by Hodgdon in January, 2010. The powder is said to be extremely accurate, and Hodgdon believes it will set new standards for stability across a wide temperature range. We spoke to Chris Hodgdon last week and he confirmed that “the 8208 XBR is packaged and ready to go. We plan to start shipping in quantity starting January 4th”.
Schmidt Tests IMR 8208 XBR with 6 PPC Railgun
Is the new powder as good as early reports have suggested? Ace Benchrest shooter Jackie Schmidt recently tested IMR 8208 XBR with his 6PPC rail gun. The results were very impressive. (Test observer 333 Smitty said: “This was the best testing session I have ever witnessed — It looks like the new 8208 is a huge success!”)
Shooting five, 5-shot groups, Jackie put together an .0976 Agg. His last two groups, both using weighed 8208 XBR loads, were in the zeros. (See target photo.) Jackie was shooting his Unlimited Rail with 65gr “Bartail” bullets, Fed 205 primers. The barrel was a 23.5″ straight-contour Kreiger with a 1:13.5″ twist. Conditions were “were really nice, just a gentle ebb and flow” with temps in the 50s and about 60% humidity.
Here is Jackie’s report, originally posted in the Benchrest Central Forum:
“I first started out with my ’08 Vihtavuori N133, just to see if the Rail was on its game. After a few 3-shot groups to find the window, I settled in on 30.4 grains with a 65gr Barts Boattail. I then nailed a nice 5-shot ‘zero’ that you can see on the far left, second row up. Average velocity was 3470 fps.
I then switched over to the 8208 XBR. I started with a load that Tom Libby recommended, 31.3 grains. While it did not nail a ‘zero’, you can see it shot pretty well. The average velocity for the five record shots was 3430 fps.
I then decided to drop the load down into another window, a flat 30.0 grains. The average velocity was 3320, and as you can see, the group opened up. I felt like I hit the condition just right on each shot. Maybe a little cool for this light of a load.
We then decided to up the charge until it matched the velocity of the N133. This took 31.8 grains. With a slow trickle this was just about half-way up into the neck. The group was really nice, so I decided to try the load again, only weighing each charge. The results were the group you see on the far right. That is really probably about a .040″, pretty darned small. The average velocity on both groups was about 3470 fps.
I then decided to go back to the 31.3 grain charge, but weighing each charge this time. The results were another nice “zero”. The velocity was the same as before, but the total spread on this group was only 12 fps.”
IMR 8208 Also Shoots Well in Sporter Rifle
Jackie reports: “I then pulled out my Sporter, and put the 31.8 grain XBR load in. I shot a couple of 3-shot groups that were about .110, then shot a 5-shot group that was a ‘zero’ for the first four. But I missed the last condition, and opened it up to about a .180, straight to the right.”
Observations and Conclusions
Jackie writes: “So, what did I find out? First, this stuff is more dense than N133. I can barely get the 30.4 grain N133 load in the case, but there is no problem at all getting the XBR in at darned near 32.0 grains. This shows that, by weight, XBR is slower than the ’08 N133.
The 8208 XBR also burned just as clean as N133. I could not tell the difference in the patches that came out after shooting N133 and the XBR. Also, this stuff meters VERY WELL. Much more consistant than N133. While I started weighing charges, I could count on the XBR out of my Hensler Measure to be within ± 0.1 grain. I simply cannot do this with N133.
An added note, the Rail Gun has a 23 1/2 inch barrel, the Sporter a 21 1/2. With the same load, I saw an average 70 to 80 fps slower velocity out of the shorter barrel. These two barrels are just about identical in the land and groove diameter, both .237 4-groove Kriegers[.] I guess this shows that some of the powder is still burning at 21 1/2 inches.
I showed that yes, at 52 degrees overcast and dreary, I made the stuff shoot pretty darned good. But, I do not have a clue what will happen when the weather changes. Only time will tell.
That about covers it. This new powder will shoot, and velocity is certainly not a problem. I had zero problems with any pressure signs, the handle on the Diamondback on the Rail and the Bat action on the Sporter lifted really easy on all loads, and the primers looked nice, with a generous radius still on the outside edge.”
| General Comments — Can 8208 XBR Live Up to Expectations?
Jackie offered these general thoughts about IMR 8208 XBR and how it stacks up versus Vihtavuori N133:
 “I have been shooting Benchrest since the mid ’90s, and I can’t think of a single product causing this much excitement, or generating this much hype. Just what are everyone’s expectations? Being able to arrive at a competitive tune, and have it stay there all day? Being able to shoot in the upper window without wrecking the brass? Being able to concentrate on the actual ‘shooting’ rather than worrying about the rifle going ‘vertical’ at any moment?
As of now, a few shooters have been able to test this new powder and found it to be capable of producing good velocity, and great groups. But, the realities of the ‘Competitive Arena’ can be very harsh. Nothing is more aggravating than trying to keep up with the pack when your rifle is locked into a .300 tune, and try as you do, nothing seems to work. We have all been there.
My expectations are that the new powder will be more stable in the perameters that govern that all important ‘Agging Capability’. By that I mean that if the rifle does get a little ragged, just a little tweek one way or another will get it back. Or even better, that the rifle will stay reasonably competitive over a day’s worth of aggregates without fear of getting so ragged that your entire day is ruined by two bullet holes worth of vertical.
This is a tough sell. But then, this is a tough game. I, for one, really hope that this new powder is more ‘user friendly’, so Benchrest can get back to being more about shooting, rather than chasing loads all day long.
N133 is probably the most used powder in 100-200 yard Benchrest today. It is also, at the same time, the biggest source of aggravation. If it is right, nothing can beat it. But, as we all know, if it isn’t quite right, the fun can go away real quick. One of the Holy Grails of Benchrest has always been how to make N133 shoot over an entire Aggregate.” |
Photos Courtesy G.A. Villarreal, used with permission.
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October 5th, 2009
We interviewed Chris Hodgdon of Hodgdon Powder Co. and learned some important information about the IMR’s new 8208 XBR powder. First Chris confirmed that ADI (Australian Defense Industries Ltd.) is the manufacturer. The powder is a very small extruded powder, similar to H322 in kernel size. That means it packs densely in a case and meters well in manual powder measures. As to burn rate, Chris stated that IMR 8208 XBR is “a tad slower than H4895.” Chris confirmed that the powder’s distinctive qualities are temp stability in an ultra-wide temperature range and a very broad accuracy window. Chris said: “Jim Carmichael found he could go up and down [significantly] in his charge weight and the group size didn’t vary.”
Hodgdon has already begun shipping IMR 8208 XBR to “OEM manufacturers” according to Chris, who said a major manufacturer will be loading the powder into .308 Win ammo and possibly other cartridges. Chris hopes to send AccurateShooter.com some of the new 8208 XBR powder for testing within two weeks. When will the powder be available to the general public? Chris couldn’t give a firm answer, but he stated “we hope to start shipping in January, 2010, prior to SHOT Show.”
IMR 8208 XBR Load Data Now Online
The Hodgdon Reloading Center site has been updated to include IMR 8208 XBR load data for 41 cartridges. Go to www.data.hodgdon.com and select “Cartridge Loads”. Then you’ll need to input the rifle cartridge of your choice. We quickly found IMR 8208 XBR loads for the .223 Rem, 22 PPC, 22-250, 6 PPC, 6mm BR, 6.5 Grendel, and .308 Win, and many other cartridges. NOTE: For most of these cartridges, the stated “max load” velocities were NOT particularly impressive. So, be aware, that this initial load data is pretty conservative.
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October 3rd, 2009
Hodgdon Powder Co. has unveiled a brand new powder, IMR 8208 XBR. From early reports, this is an exceptional new propellant that may change the way the game is played in short-range benchrest. According to Hodgdon, “IMR 8208 XBR is a remarkably advanced technology propellant” formulated for popular match, varmint and sniper rounds, including 223 Rem, 308 Win, 6mm PPC, 204 Ruger, 6mm BR, 22-250 Remington and similar calibers. We’re told the powder is being produced by ADI in Australia.
IMR 8208 XBR is Consistent in All Conditions
This short grain extruded rifle powder exhibits exceptional stability with virtually no change in velocity at temperatures ranging from -40 degrees F to 165+ degrees F. Lou Murdica, who helped develop this new powder, confirms that it is not temp-sensitive. Lou told us: “I have been shooting IMR 8208 XBR for over a year and I have done a lot of winning shooting it. One of the great things about this particular powder is, I always shoot the same load whether I shoot it in Florida or Phoenix AZ. I have never had to adjust for temperature or humidity.” That’s big news in the short-range BR game. Currently, most competitors must tailor their load to suit conditions.
IMR 8208 XBR is Already Winning Matches
Lou Murdica, one of the nation’s top BR shooters, won numerous matches with 8208 XBR in 2009, including the Heavy Varmint Grand Agg at the Cactus Classic. In August 2009, Jim Carmichel won the Heavy Varmint Grand Agg at the IBS Group Nationals. What is significant here is that Jim shot the exact same load of IMR 8208 XBR both days to win the event. That’s right–this powder requires far less “tuning” than most other powders currently used in short-range benchrest.
Product Development and Performance
Lou Murdica revealed some interesting facts about IMR 8208 XBR. Lou explained that the development team was initially trying to produce a propellant that would match the desireable characteristics of the “classic” T32 powder from the 1960s. In the process of developing a T-Powder clone, Lou says that the Hodgdon/IMR powder wizards came up with something even better: “We were originally pursuing a formula like T-Powder, but we came up with something a bit different. It was so good, and shot so well, that we didn’t want to lose it. It turned out that this stuff shot as well or better than the earlier T-clone mixtures and was incredibly stable.”
 Lou continued: “I’ve shot a lot of T-Powder and it is sensitive in certain way. I feel this new powder is equal to, if not better than, a T-Powder clone because 8208 XBR is not sensitive. I can shoot the same load, at any location, in any temperature or humidity. Additionally, and this is very important — the new powder is very forgiving. It has a very broad accuracy window. If you’re shooting 30.0 grains in a 6 PPC successfully, we found you could go down to 29.8, or up to 30.2 and the accuracy was still there. You won’t see a change in group size. It has a very wide and forgiving load window.”
[CAUTION: These charge weights may be excessive with your rifle and your bullets. Always start 10% low and work up.]
The new powder is versatile and has plenty of energy. Lou tells us “8208 XBR is a great powder. With a 6 PPC shooting 68-grainers, I can get up into the 3500 fps range. And the powder will work with larger cases too. I’ve tried it with success in a 6BR with 105s and I think it will work in a Dasher or 6 BRX. I also shot it in a 22BR successfully.”
Lou predicts that IMR 8208 XBR will have a big impact on the Benchrest game once it is widely available: “Once this powder gets in people’s hands I think you’re going to see GREAT things. It’s not finicky. It meters really well out of normal powder measures. It’s really stable. There are plusses all around. We’ll know within a year whether it becomes the powder to beat.”
Lou is no longer involved in the sale or distribution of IMR 8208 XBR: “I’m not in it any more. I have to buy my powder like everyone else.” But he encourages all BR shooters to give it a try: “The powder is fantastic. I have been telling everyone to go to your powder dealers and order it. Buy a jug and shoot it.”
Lou has high praise for the folks at Hodgdon: “You can’t say enough good things about Chris Hodgdon and Hodgdon’s willingness to develop this new powder. They’ve finally given us something we’ve really wanted and really needed. What they have done is great.”
Product Availability — IMR 8208 XBR in Short Supply until 2010
IMR 8208 XBR will be available in 1-lb canisters and 8-lb kegs in 2010. Hodgdon has produced limited quantities already, and you may be able to find some 8208 XBR at popular vendors, such as Powder Valley, in early January, 2010. You’ll need to call around to see who has it.
For more information or complete data visit imrpowder.com, phone IMR at (913) 362-9455 or write to 6231 Robinson, Shawnee Mission, KS 66202.
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May 21st, 2009
Many of our readers have reported difficulty obtaining many of the popular Hodgdon powders such as H4895, H4350, and Varget. Well, here’s some good news. Natchez Shooters’ Supply recently received a large shipment of Hodgdon powder. Unfortunately Varget and H4350 are still out, but Natchez has Benchmark, H4895, Hybrid 100V, and Retumbo in stock. Natchez also has IMR 4198 and IMR 4007ssc. IMR powders are now distributed by Hodgdon.
NOTE: These products are listed in stock as of 8:00 am 5/21/09. They may sell out before you read this.
Hodgdon/IMR Rifle Powders In Stock at Natchez:
HDBM1 – BENCHMARK 1LB: $19.99
HDH3808 – H380 8LB: $124.98
HDH48951 – H4895 1LB: $19.99
HDHY1001 – HYBRID 100V 1LB: $18.49
HDHY1008 – HYBRID 100V 8LB: $128.99
HDRET1 – RETUMBO 1LB: $19.99
DU41981 – IMR 4198 1LB: $19.49
DU4007SSC8 – IMR 4007ssc 8LB: $134.49
Try 4007ssc for H4350 applications
Since H4350 is still hard to find, shooters may also want to consider substituting IMR 4007ssc for H4350. IMR 4007ssc is a very accurate powder in the 22-250, 6-6.5×47, 6XC, and Rem 260. Natchez has 8-lb kegs of IMR 4007ssc in stock and Powder Valley has 1-lb. containers of IMR 4007ssc in stock, as well as 1-lb bottles of H322, and Hybrid 100V.
 Norma 203B Available from Grafs.com — Replaces Varget or RL15
For those folks desperate to find Hodgdon Varget or Alliant Reloder 15, we suggest you try Norma 203B. This is a very accurate powder very close in performance to Reloder 15 (it is produced by the same manufacturer, Bofors). It should give slightly more velocity than Varget, but it is somewhat more temperature sensitive.
In a 6mmBR or .308 Win, start with your Varget load with 203B. You may, then, be able to increase the load slightly, unless you’ll be shooting in very hot weather. Grafs.com has plenty of 1-lb cans of Norma 203B in stock, Item Number: NP203B1, $24.99 per pound.
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