Ammo Failure (Detonation?) in 3-Gun Match — Watch and Wince
What happens when a round goes off unsafely in an AR? Watch this video and see. At about the 00:40 time-mark the shooter has a malfunction (click no bang), with a round. He then removes the magazine, and clears the chamber (we think). On the next round, at 00:53 you hear a “Bang” and see a big puff of smoke coming out of the upper receiver (see photo at right). This has been called a “detonation” by the video-maker, but we’re not 100% sure what happened. What do you guys think? Watch the video carefully, and state your conclusions in the comment section if you wish.
What Caused this Malfunction? Watch Video…
In any event, the shooter is fortunate his upper did not completely fracture, launching shrapnel into his face or other body parts. This could have turned out much worse. Here are screen-shots from the video, showing details of the gun after the accident, along with the recovered brass case, which separated near the case-head.
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Could the round of ammo not have been crimped enough and when he hit the bolt release it seated the bullet deeper and thus had a compressed powder charge?
If it was an over charged round and the gun was in battery you would see a sheared lug or two and possibly a bulged barrel. with the Bolt carrier having that downward sheared look I would call this a high primer that caused an out of battery on the “Clicked” round but was out of battery enough not to have ignition. While the next round was also out of battery but there was enough room for the primer to get crushed as the bolt moved to its final forward position but before it “locked” this crushing causes ignition and you get this type of out of battery fire. Just my Opinion.
It’s a squib that probably lodged near the end of the barrel and was cleared by the kaboom. Too much of a coincidence to have a failure before the overcharge.
Fred: We tend to agree that there’s a connection with the previous dud (click no bang) round. We’re also not 100% sure about the previous round, though it does appear that the round that blew was enclosed in the chamber when it separated.
I would guess there was a bullet in the barrel
The bolt looks terrific for what it went through.
I believe the video makes a very strong case for the review of misfire procedures. It is very obvious that the need to get back to firing outweighed consideration in identifying all components cleared. This includes possible unburnt loose powder from the 1st misfire and a clear barrel. There are serious shortfalls in declaring overcharged ammo as the major fault here.
Brass is extruded into the elector hole, primer is extruded into the fireing pin hole.when he cleared the round was a bullet left in the barrel,would have to have been just in front of the chamber,about 80k psi
We had something just like that with a customer upper – – same scenario – – a dud right before the kaboom.
We also looked at the barrel inside with a borescope and you could see where a bullet had been lodged (from the dud) in the barrel and then the later projectile had literally collided into the one stuck in the barrel and both cleared out, except at the point of collision there was very visible signs of the collision, slight bulge in the barrel and major copper jacket embedded in the collision area. The good round ruptured (just like in the photos shown here) and blew the magazine out the mag well, bulged the receivers, etc. I think Fred Garvin may be spot on with his analysis.
I respectfully disagree with the others. I have seen this same thing happen twice before with a match AR upper. Same shooter. I asked if he was shooting from the same box of ammo and he said YES. We pulled his ammo down, measuring everything as we went. Then I pulled one that had very dark ball powder. I went to his house and found he had put some Alliant 2400 powder into his Varget container. He only had three types of powder at his house so this had to be it.
His rifle detonated in exactly the same manor. 24 grains of 2400 Magnum pistol powder probably put many times the pressure that the AR should withstand. These two receivers looked identical to the one pictured here. By the way, the magazine floor plates in both detonations have launched into orbit. We could not find them anywhere!
While definitive cause is good to know, it is a good personal lesson for me in reviewing IA’s and a good lesson in reviewing my own reloading practices to eliminate sloppy practices.
I was fortunate enough to not kill myself when I inadvertenly squibbed a bunch of 45 ACP rounds with a progressive press. (got sloppy and went too fast) Thankfully, my chopstick (literally) revealed a bullet stuck in a barrel far enough down that another round WOULD have chambered and fired if I tried. It scared the schitt out of me and taught me a good lesson. I look to make sure the bullet is still there with any misfire.
I like to think I am smart enough to learn from other people’s mistakes. I am glad – very glad – nobody got hurt. Thanks for sharing
Hmmm wrong powder. I agree with Eric here. At the same time I was thinking too much crimp. It happen to me in early 90’s went I was shooting IPSC. I borrowed my friend Dillon to crimp my 45 ACP. I was a young reloader then and trusted his setting and ended with way too much crimp. My faith ended like the guy in this video. I shoot 10-15 rounds and then boom. When it happen I knew right what was the problem. Never again I trusted anyone gear and setting. That was my fault. My answer was too much crimp but agree with Eric.
Eric – – But in this case the guy is reportedly running manufactured ammo where everything runs fine for a number of shots, then a dud/problem round, then kaboom, so I don’t understand why that is more suggestive of the mixed powder or wrong powder issue you mention as opposed to the other scenario.
While I agree with the squib theory. One can not deny that primer is cratered, suggesting a very hot round.
At no point do I see any attempt to check what was ejected from the gun after the first fail nor to really check the chamber or the barrel. IMO they had no idea if the failed round was wholly ejected. There is no way on the evidence provided to entirely conclude the fault is in the factory ammo. There is however adequate doubt in my mind about the risk assessment here to warrant a review of misfire clearance procedures.
Check out the bottom of the bolt carrier at 1:20 in the vid. Perfect imprint of the next round in the magazine – you can even see the cannelure. Gives an idea of timing/bcg position when overpressure occured. I cannot offer explanation beyond this observation
I agree with everyone. Too much of a coincidence with a dud round preceding the boom. From personal experience I’ve left many bullets stuck in chambers where I failed to put powder in the case. With an AR you wouldn’t have the same feedback as a bolt gun when inserting the next round. My long distance guess. The primer went off in the first dud and stuck a bullet in the throat. The next dud the bolt didn’t go completely into battery. The next round that fully chambered had the bullet pushed back into the case. This is the only sequence of events that makes sense to me. Wish they had those two dud cartridges.
I just watched the video again. Two different distinct sounds on the dud rounds. First sharp and crisp like the bolt was in battery and the second one fainter, shorter duration.
Maybe a blow up by having a bullet stuck in the barrel [ Barrel obstruction]
cased by under loaded round followed by a good round
The other may be a overload round
possibly with the wrong powder.
either way its the ammo.
If it was an over pressured round from being over charged or wrong powder you would see at least one sheared lug. If it was as squib you would see a barrel bulge.
If the bullet was stuck in the throat you may not see a bulge in the barrel. I don’t see any information on the condition of the barrel. I did notice a very small amount of gas exiting the barrel on the kaboom. More visible than during normal firing so the barrel is probably clear.
I agree it was probably the ammo that set a chain of events in motion. They should have shut it down on the second unfired round.
PROCEDURE FOR DEALING WITH MISFIRES:
If a misfire occurs you should inform the RSO (if present) and wait at least 30 seconds with the rifle still in your shoulder pointing downrange at your target, in case of hang fires. Carefully place your rifle on the ground, ensuring that it still points towards your target and horizontal with the ground. Open the bolt carefully ensuring that your hand is not behind the bolt, and that no-one is standing behind or beside the rifle. Check that the cartridge comes out
complete with the bullet. Do not put the round back in the rifle, keep it
separate from your other live ammo and then hand it in for disposal.
Yep. Looks like the prior round was a squib. That would be my guess.
Another vote for a squib and then a normal round. Too much of a coincidence.
Does everyone still teach “tap, rack, bang”? The odds of getting a squib exceed the odds of being in an actual gunfight. If one is in a gunfight, then “tap, rack, bang” may be the right thing to do. If one is not, then the bore should be checked after a pop or click instead of a bang. Checking bores with an AR is a trivial undertaking. Pull one pin.
I have seen the result of a wrong powder mishap in a very strong bolt gun. Everything came undone. The barrel was actually propelled several feet forward. I can not exclude in improperly charged round as a possibility, but this incident appears to involve an out of battery ignition, the cause of which is not fully explained. Photographs of barrel obstruction incidents more often than not have shown barrels which have split rather than just a bulge. A detailed examination of the barrel would be in order as well as the remaining ammunition looking for any high primers and breaking it down to examine and weigh the powder charges. I also wonder which primers were involved as some are more sensitive in a slam fire scenario.
This incident illustrates why a misfire of any sort should be treated as a cease fire. In any sort of timed competition like this, your run is non-competitive anyway. This is a reminder to us all to exercise care both as individual shooters and as club members or range officers. It is indeed fortunate that the worst thing that happened here was the destruction of the rifle.
An AR15 won’t easily fire out of battery, so I doubt that’s the case.
One thing I’ve had happen, I’ve had squibs. Luckily, I checked it to be sure. The round didn’t want to extract and I had to mortar the rifle. What happened was I had a bullet stuck in the throat and the following round still chambered but the bullet was set-back into the case. Luckily, I didn’t fire. I found a shiny piece of brass on the ground with a spent primer and no carbon in the neck.
This is what caused the “over-pressure” round in the video, I believe. So it was an over-pressure round induced by the previous squib and bullet in the throat.
The jury seems to be unanimous on this one.
All the same, would it be wrong to suggest that the greatest threat to Mr. Malin’s well-being has less to do with what he feeds his rifle than…
Perhaps it would. Stay safe, all.
We had a squib happen in a class when we were running everything really hard. Lower mostly survived, broken bolt catch. The bolt, bolt carrier, upper, barrel extension were totally destroyed. Found two bullets lodged in the barrel. No barrel bulge. The barrel was fine, put on a new barrel extension and put back in service. Still shoots MOA at 100y. Hell of a thing.
he had a stuck bullet, probably caused by a primed cart with no powder, then fired a normal shot that ran into the lodged bullet.
How do you not notice a squid potential round? I can tell even with .22LR when I might have a squib load. No matter what when something like that happens you had damn well better check the barrel for obstructions to be on the safe side anytime it happens. Now if he accidently loaded with the wrong powder well that is nothing but a failure to be sure of what you are using when reloading ammo. Pilot error can cost you your life or permanent disfigurement. When in doubt CHECK IT OUT!
At the 2014 Remington USPSA Multi-Gun Nationals in Las Vegas, a shooter in our squad had a squib with factory Federal M193 ball ammo. The Range Officer stopped the shooter and a bullet was found stuck in the barrel. Needless to say, the shooter did not get a re-shoot, but he went home with all of his fingers and an undamaged firearm.
The bolt obviously locked in place with locking lugs locked in barrel extension. Whatever the reason, it was an over pressure, likely due to a squib load (the click no bang) with a bullet likely in the barrel. The pressure blew the cartridge apart and the gases expelled around the bolt, thr extractor, and the firing pin hole. The bolt held and very well may have saved his life. Had the lugs sheared off the upper receiver would have blown to pieces and the bolt could have been thrown into his face.
I think people should rethink their misfires especially during a match. No match is worth more than your life. If you have a “click no bang” scenario, keep the rifle pointed in a safe direction for 30 seconds or so and only after cycle the squib from the chamber. Forfeit the game if you feel there is any risk. After all it is just a game. I know from experience, having personally experienced a “click no bang” scenario and lacking the experience of the risk and the wisdom to take my time and inspect the situation I pulled the trigger again and watched a pistol explode to pieces in my hand.