Satern Custom and Liberty Barrels Halt Grendel Barrel Production
Starting June 1, 2011, Satern Custom Machining and Liberty Barrels will no longer produce 6.5 Grendel and .50 Beowolf barrels, as both barrel makers declined to agree to a new, more onerous licensing agreement with Alexander Arms. Satern had produced cut-rifled 6.5 Grendel and Beowolf barrels for the past five (5) years under license to Alexander, while Liberty crafted button-rifled Grendel and Beowolf barrels under license. It may be hard to replace Satern, a highly regarded cut-rifled barrel-maker, as other top-quality barrel makers may likewise reject Alexander Arms’ licensing demands.
Alexander Arms’ Policies Have Impeded 6.5 Grendel Development
Radford, VA-based Alexander Arms continues to paint itself in a corner with respect to the 6.5 Grendel cartridge. Alexander Arms (AA) has aggressively protected the 6.5 Grendel cartridge design, threatening legal action against companies that planned to sell 6.5 Grendel AR uppers, chamber barrels for this cartridge, or even merely offer 6.5 Grendel reamers. One can understand Alexander’s desire to protect its design rights, but many industry experts believe Alexander Arms has gone overboard. Many gun builders and parts markers view the 6.5 Grendel cartridge as a “lawsuit in the making” so they stay away from it. As a result, this accurate and efficient cartridge is not growing in popularity as rapidly as it might otherwise. Alexander Arms has simply made it too difficult to comply with its demands, so many gun makers have decided that they would rather build anything other than a 6.5 Grendel.
Ironically, many shooters have chosen to build guns based on 6.5 Grendel parent brass, but necked down to 6mm. Robert Whitley pioneered a very effective 6mm-6.5 Grendel wildcat he calls the 6mmAR. It shoots great in AR platform rifles, as does a higher-capacity derivative, the 6mmAR “Turbo”. To learn more, visit 6mmAR.com.
Similar Posts:
- 6.5 Grendel is Approved as SAMMI Cartridge — Alexander Arms Gives Up “6.5 Grendel” Trademark
- Low-Cost 6.5 Grendel Ammo
- Whitley's NEW 6mmAR "Turbo" — 105s at 2850+ fps in AR15
- 6mmAR Case-Forming Video
- Grendel-based 6mmAR Cartridge for High Power
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Tags: 6.5 Grendel, 6mmAR, Bewolf, Cut-rifled barrels, Satern Custom Machinging
As a European I wonder what the legal base for claiming the rights to the dimensions of a run-of-the-mill cartridge design might be. I fail to see what is so special about this cartridge that deserves protection.
It reminds me of the Russian complains about “illegal” Kalashnikov clones. Even if the design had been patented in other countries, the patents would have expired decades ago.
You don’t have to be from Europe to think it’s rediculous.
I recently e-mailed AA about the weight of their new G10 polymer AR freefloat tubes. I got an email back saying it was on the FAQ section of there website. I informed them that it was not and have not heard back.
How the heck can you not know your own companies website.
Les Baer had an altercation with the new owners of Alexander Arms regarding the Grendel licensing and summarily quit making the Grendel uppers. His legal staff concluded that they (AA) had protected the name only so Les Baer Custom has released a chamber aptly named .264 LBC-AR. It is interchangeable with the Grendel but no reference is made to that name.
It’s unfortunate that companies such as Alexander Arms and Venturecross Capital lose sight of their goals and the goals of the public. It all seems penny wise and pound foolish…
It’s apparent that Bill Alexander didn’t do too well at math in school. A few percent of something is greater than 100 percent of nothing.
“I recently e-mailed AA about the weight of their new G10 polymer AR freefloat tubes. I got an email back saying it was on the FAQ section of there website. I informed them that it was not and have not heard back.”
It’s in the “size” drop-down on the product page . Unfortunately it says the weight of both the large and small are one pound. I doubt that’s the true weight of either of them.
As long as Lapua keeps making 6.5G brass for my 6Turbo40º I’ll be happy.
It took as long to write that snarky e-mail reply as it would have taken to give an earnest response!
AA has severely misunderstood the cartridge market. The Grendel is a good cartridge, but it ain’t that good. There is nothing the Grendel does that can’t be done by an infinite array of other cartridges. Just change the shoulder angle by 1 degree & BANG! New cartridge! Cartridges are just too competitive of market to be pulling BS like this.
Load a 6.8 SPC long and I’ll bet less than 1% of shooters could tell the difference on the firing line.
I neck the Grendel case up to 30 cal to form the 30 Major for VFS benchrest. Am thinking about campaigning a 6AR, with suitable changes, in UBR.
So, I would sure hate to see Lapua drop the case, but am afraid that these policies are the beginning of the end.
This article is very poorly written, depicts neither side of the issue very well, and the commenters demonstrate a complete lack of understanding of the issues.
The only thing protected as intellectual property is the trademarked name of the cartridge and rifle. Just like Coca Cola or Pepsi. The name, nothing else.
Editor: This is only your assertion. The issue has not yet been adjudicated definitively. In fact, Alexander Arms has taken a much more aggressive position, claiming that it’s rights include MUCH more than the cartridge name. As noted, AA has gone so far as to tell reamer makers that they cannot make tools to fit factory-loaded dimensions.
Any decent smith or machinist can reverse engineer the chambering from the cartridge, as has been done by Les Baer, CSS, and others. However, they have all chosen to use slightly different chamber designs, much like some .308 smiths use tighter chambers than others.
Editor: Yes, any decent smith can do that, and potentially face a lawsuit. Why do you think the “slight changes were made”?
The article is very misleading in that it states in bold lettering, “No More Grendels”. Nothing could be further from the truth. There may be no more Satern Grendel barrels, but truthfully, did anyone ask Satern just how many barrels they made for Grendels in the first place?
Editor: Come on… the story is about the two barrel-makers which halted 6.5 Grendel production. That is clear from the subheading on the same photo you cite.
I would think the admin here would be more than a little embarrassed by such a sensationalistic headline to what is really a very small blip.
Editor: Sensationalistic headline? The article’s headline says: “Satern Custom and Liberty Barrels Halt Grendel Barrel Production”. What’s wrong with that??
From the article, it is apparent no on [sic] called Alexander Arms, and it is doubtful anyone called Satern. How about Hornady, who makes brass and ammunition?
This site has been well informed and relatively unbiased, but this article demonstrates neither.
This article reflects a rush to judgment, and I smell some kind of bias. I can’t remember the last time I saw an article highlighting an industry dispute in this way.
Didn’t the article writer bother to get Alexander Arms’ side of the story? There’s a proverb from the Bible, something to the effect of “it’s foolish to pass judgment until both sides are heard.”
I’m sure, for example, if we asked the estranged wife of a divorced man to write an open letter about him in the local paper we’d get a different story than from the man himself.
I urge more thoroughness and fairness on the part of the reporter in a news article like this that really reflects so poorly on a member of the firearms community.
From what I read, AA would agree…….Satern and Liberty no longer produce 6.5 Grendel and .50 Beuwolf barrels.
The Editor is just reporting what is currently going on. If you have followed the Grendel cartridge, the Editor accurately describes what has happened to the Grendel. I don’t see any unfair/rushed judgement.
I agree with the article that AA has hurt the cartridge and they would’ve prospered better in the end had they been more ‘open-source’ with it.
However, I find it hypocritical to paint Robert Whitley as somehow being different than AA as Robert refuses to sell anything but complete uppers and won’t allow people to buy just barrels from him. Try to a build a 6mm from a Grendel yourself and you’re stuck with the 6MM RAT; which is fine with me, I’d rather give my money to John Holliger and White Oak since they’re willing to give the customer what they want.
This article demonstrates a complete lack of knowledge about what really went on with this, as well as the major lesson we just learned with the rush to get SAAMI approval of the 6.8 SPC.
How many manufacturers are using the SAAMI spec for the 6.8 SPC right now? None that anybody wants, since the 6.8 SAAMI spec is an unsafe drawing for that cartridge, and has resulted in at least one extreme catastrophic destruction of an AR15 with an unsuspecting customer using factory ammunition.
The lesson is that a cartridge designer can either let his idea be copied, tweaked, and modified by everybody and their brother, relegating it to permanent wildcat status like many we have seen from eccentric cartridge design enthusiasts, or….
The designer can introduce something useful for a broad consumer base, let the industry respond to it, push for major ammunition and component manufacturer support (Lapua, Hornady), while awaiting the SAAMI approval process for one, specific, well-tested design.
This latter method is what Bill Alexander has done, and history will treat him well for it, as evidenced by Satern’s announcement that they will be making actual Grendel-chambered barrels again.
If different barrel-makers were chaffed at having to cut a concentric compound throat angle, and were looking for short cuts, I can understand, given the record-level demand we’re seeing for AR15 barrels suitable for hunting medium game and recreational target shooting. I don’t blame anyone who is trying to cut production time in this market, just don’t assign responsibility for that decision with Bill Alexander. He’s back-ordered like everyone else for Grendel uppers and rifles, with no sign of things letting up.
Consumers would like to see the industry standard adhered to, and people put their egos aside and just make customers happy.