Schwarzenegger Terminates Mail-Order Ammo Sales in California
California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger signed AB 962 yesterday. Consequently, effective February 1, 2011, Californians will have to provide complete personal information, plus a thumbprint, to buy pistol ammunition. In addition, the bill requires that all pistol ammo sales be “face to face”. This could effectively ban mail-order ammunition sales in California. Cabela’s, a leading outdoor retailer, has told customers that it will stop shipping ammo to California if AB 962 became law.
Though AB 962 was designed to control pistol ammunition purchases, it will also affect rifle ammunition sales because California law defining pistol ammo is broad and vague. Basically, AB 962 could be extended to virtually any ammo which has ever been used in a pistol. That certainly will include 22LR, 22 Magnum, .221 Fireball, and .223 Rem for starters.
Gov. Schwarzenegger vetoed similar legislation a few years ago, based on the fact that a similar federal scheme had been tried and later abandoned as a complete failure. However, the Governor reversed himself, explaining: “Although I have previously vetoed legislation similar to this measure, local governments have demonstrated that requiring ammunition vendors to keep records on ammunition sales improves public safety. These records have allowed law enforcement to arrest and prosecute persons who have no business possessing firearms and ammunition: gang members, violent parolees, second and third strikers, and even people previously serving time in state prison for murder. Moreover, this type of record keeping is no more intrusive for law abiding citizens than similar laws governing pawnshops or the sale of cold medicine.”
Similar Posts:
- California Mail-Order Ammo Ban Starts February 1, 2011
- California Legislature Approves Restriction on Ammo Sales — Bill Goes to Governor
- Gun Owners Nationwide Seek Veto of California AB 962
- California Legislation Threatens to Restrict Ammunition Sales
- California Mail-Order Ammo Ban Goes on Trial in January
Californian’s have their heads lodged in their lower sigmoid colon if they think this measure will make the streets any safer.
Ahh…..democracy….the people have spoken.
Nice touch. Using one stupid idea, recording cold remedy sales, to justify another stupid idea.
When will they figure out that by definition law breakers break the law and new laws don’t suddenly cause them to change their behavior.
the ammount of people letting the gov know that this was a bad idea has been insane. He is a complete looser for signing this. the phone number to speakout against this bill has been busy 24/7 and still it passes.
I would guess with the ecconomy being so bad and jobs all but non existent. The California state government can turn its attention and efforts to ammunition smuggling. They have done such a good job with keeping the Mexicans in Mexico.
I am sorry for those who enjoy the shooting sports and the right to self protection. But it is your choice to live in a state where the laws are so liberal for the criminal and so strict for the law abiding citizens.
I would refuse to live and pay taxes in such a state. If the gun folks would just pack up their bags and move to another state, California revenues would continue to dwindle and the liberals would all become victums of the criminals.
Nat Lambeth
I fear that we will see border crossings from the U.S. into the Republic of California in my lifetime. Arnold has always been a RINO.
I live 10 miles from Oakland and Richmond… I’m so excited to see how much crime drops because drug dealers and “gang bangers” can’t buy their ammo online, I know they love using Lapua 6mmBR to “smoke” their competition *end sarcasm*.
Considering the similarities I believe I may start referring to this state as the People Republic of California (PRC)… when is Arnold going to start handing out little red books I wonder?
Looking forward to moving out of this state.
I guess I will be making more trips to Nevada from now on.
My Thoughts are – LEAVE California (I did a few years back after being Fed-UP!!!) – It’s not very hard to find a better place to live & one Up-side to it all is it is way cheaper to live else where.
Like the Bumper-Sticker I saw says ” I’ll keep my Guns, Freedom & Money” – They can keep the “change”
RM
“AB 962 could be extended to virtually any ammo which has ever been used in a pistol” The term “pistol” might mean all handguns. If so, that means the Thompson Contender could outlaw almost all rifle cartridges and shotshells as well.
Does anyone know how this might affect reloading components? If it does then all primers, most powders and brass would need to be sold “face to face” by a licensed dealer. I expect that would be abused like the CA FFL dealers who continue to charge (that I personally know of) up to ten times more than the legally allowed maximum fees for handling a transfer of gun ownership in CA. Who knows it might even spin into outlawing reloading because, in their minds, reloading might be an implied intent to circumvent AB 962. That’s how the left thinks …………. A law doesn’t have to specifically and clearly state details of a law it only needs to seem to say to them anything they want it to say . The CA State Attorney General could make such an interpolation without legislative interference.
Also, the state would then have a record of all ammo purchasers. Then, if certain ammo was outlawed they could follow through to seek out those who earlier bought the legal ammo – when it was legal. If such people were in possession of the outlawed ammo, I expect they would that as classify it as a gun crime and, at the very least, take away all of your guns, ammo, reloading equipment, components and ban you from ever buying or owning a gun, ammo and etc in CA.
Or…. live free in Arizona……………
AB 962
The final version of AB962, as chaptered (finalized into law) is here: http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/09-10/bill/asm/ab_0951-1000/ab_962_bill_20091011_chaptered.pdf
COMMENTS :
1)Author’s Statement : According to the author, “AB 962 the
Protection Act of 2009 seeks to safeguard California’s
communities by combating the easy accessibility to handgun
ammunition that fuels gun violence and criminal activity.”
4)Arguments in Opposition :
a) According to the National Rifle Association , “The
proponents of AB 962 claim that new legislation is needed
to stop the transfer of handgun ammunition to criminals.
In California, the transfer of ammunition to a prohibited
person is a crime and the possession of ammunition by a
prohibited person is a crime.
“A provision of AB 962 would resurrect a Federal Government
program of ammunition sales registration at the point of
purchase that was repealed due to the lack of
effectiveness. The purchaser registration requirement
would expose consumers to possible identity theft problems
with sensitive personal information being required to be
given to retail businesses.
“A provision of AB 962 to only allow the face-to-face
transfer/sales of handgun ammunition would ban all Internet
and mail order handgun ammunition sales.”
b) According to the California Rifle and Pistol Association
(CRPA), “AB 962 would require the registration of handgun
ammunition sales, including a thumbprint of the buyer and
other personal information, plus the type and amount of
ammunition purchased. The register would be completed and
kept by the ammunition retailer on the premises for a
period of five years.
“According to the bills proponents, this would somehow help
solve crimes. However, it would not do so because
criminals have other sources of ammunition and would not
need to purchase it from California retailers who are
required to register their sales.
“The Federal Gun Control Act of 1968 was revised in the
mid-1980’s to remove the Acts requirement that Federal
Firearms License holders keep a similar record of all
ammunition sales. The Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco
and Firearms (ATF) reported that keeping records of
ammunition sales proved not to be an effective law
enforcement tool.
“There is no valid reason to believe that mandating the
keeping of records of ammunition sales at the state level,
as proposed in AB 962, would be an effective crime fighting
tool, either. It has already been tried nationally and has
been proven not to be effective.
“The bill would further mandate that retailers display
handgun ammunition in a manner that prevents customers from
having access to it without the assistance of the retailer
or a retailer’s employee. This would make comparison
shopping by customers extremely difficult, if not
impossible.
“Most retailers report that they are not equipped to comply
with this provision of AB 962. Retailers state that they
do not have a problem of ammunition theft from displays
where customers can have access to it without the
assistance of a sales person. The bill would only create an unnecessary burden for them. Most are small businesses.
“AB 962 would also do away with all internet and mail order
handgun ammunition sales by requiring that all sales
transactions be made in person “face to face”. This would
create an impossible situation for many who participate in
the shooting sports because they need specialty ammunition
for reloading components that are not stocked by local
stores that sell ammunition. From a retailer’s point of
view, the market for specialty ammunition components is so
small that they cannot afford to keep it in stock.
Comrades! We are one step closer to closing the noose on the capitalist pigs that have dominated our society for so long. Soon these pigs will have no means to resist us any longer and will be forced into submission for the glory of our supreme leaders. Only the truly deserving will be allowed to indulge themselves in the riches of the great nation. The rest will grovel in awe at our might and have no means to resist!
It’s an ObamaNation!!!
Well, we have stricter laws than these down here in OZ and I can assure you, they don’t worry the criminal one little bit. You can buy an illegal handgun, brand new in it’s maker’s sealed bag for less money than a dealer can buy a legal gun of the same type from a legitimate importer. All ammo sales require the sighting by the retailer of the purchaser’s shooter’s license and there are no mail-order ammo sales. Reloading components and propellants are considered to be the same as loaded ammo so there are no mail order sales of components either. Firearm theft (in particular, handguns) is increasing because there are now so many records of gun ownership that are kept in less secure places (gun club records are the least secure of the lot) that criminals can easily target specific households knowing beforehand exactly what guns they will find there. This has happened in both Melbourne and Sydney quite recently.
Sorry Arnie, it ain’t gonna work, old son.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Take away a citizens firearms and you have turned them into a victim. Lawmakers in California (And other states) are so blind when it comes to firearms. They automatically think that if they take away a law abiding citizens right to carry or their right to protect themselves, then they have solved the entire problem of crime. WRONG! Bad guys will ALWAYS have firearms and ammunition and plenty of it. No matter how much gets confiscated and destroyed, there will be plenty of replacements for the bad guys. There is not a giant wall around California keeping this stuff out. With all of the crime in California especially around the big cities, you would think lawmakers would want to protect it’s citizens, but no, they want to make it so difficult for the people, that no one will be able to protect themselves period. I’ve always been a big fan of Arnold movies, but I’m very dissappointed with him. I’m not even from California. I do not hold an office, but I am more worried about Californians rights than what lawmakers are. This type of thing effects so many other items. I just hope that lawmakers start making the right choices for it’s people, not only in California, but other states as well.
The govenator has spoken and civil liberties are trampled on once again. Woe to the poor souls who live in the Republic of California!
Dude you need to get a life this will never be an obama nation
This is the last unconstitutional straw, born & bred Cali, I’m outa here. Shove the 10 round mag limit, bullet button, 50 cal, and fascist ammo restriction up your communist manifesto, Ahh-nee.
I used to think the slogan “when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns,” meant what it said. Now I see a hidden message, in that the outlawing will also have the unintended consequence of turning the normal law abiding citizen into an outlaw.
What do you expect when you elect a bad actor into office? Surely not competence; and the governator has been sleeping with the Kennedys for so long that he has more than crossed over, he has decieved himself that he is anything but an LA-lib.
For those of you living outside the PRC, standby for this nonsense to metastisize to other states. I spent the majority of my adult life looking at CA as the land of fruits and nuts. Now, while living here, I realize that LA and SF are truly the spawn that Chicago and Boston are so well known for. Just another example of what happens when good men stay silent, shrug their shoulders and assume they can not do anything about the “powers that be.”
Looking forward to cleaning house in 2010.
Dave White
Santa Maria, PRC
As an afterthought to this, I wonder if this will impact ammo sales from the CMP. Given that they were established by act of the US Congress, I am unsure if states can prohibit or regulate their actions.
Looks like a possible opening for the CR&PA to drive a constitutional challenge to the new regulation.
dw
You won’t be back Arnie. Back to the movies!
Time to open up new ammunition stores in Reno and Vegas …. business is going to soar!!!
Welcome to the future-the right to bear arms does not include the right to buy ammunition and this is the beginning of a serious trend. Frankly, I am am amazed that it has taken this long for this angle to play out.
I think we can argue this action of Arnolds to infinity, but the real fact is that he has the right idea. If you go after the illegal amunition instead of the gun dealers you then make ALL weapons useless. The sources of making the amunition can be regulated. It would be like going after illegal drug factories. I don’t know where this could take us, but a weapon without amunition is USLESS!
Don’t you people realize??… They are doing this crap on purpose!! It’s all about CONTROL. Our so-called government WANTS all Americans to eat from their hands and rely on them for everything. They are hard at work with their plans of world domination and creating the one world government. First will be the North American Union combining Canada and Mexico with the US. Why do you think they aren’t really stopping [South Americans] from illegal immigration?
There is so much more to what they are doing, but most people can only see the surface of the issues and that’s what they want. They do NOT want people seeing the BIG picture… but I am here to tell you… the rabbit hole goes MUCH deeper!!!
Gee how can we create a black market for hand gun ammo and make it profitable for criminals to make some extra bucks?? Are maybe even just they average sport shooter? Jobs for California . The more you try to control the more control you loss, People will always figure out how to get what they want and there will always be those out there the will be glad to help for a buck. “Building factories overseas, manufacturers are sowing the seeds of their own long-term destruction by slowly reducing the wealth of Americans, who are their primary customers.” Maybe if there were more jobs in America less people would have time to use guns in a criminal acts . Has things go worse people get bolder , more desperate .
Apparently the buck doesn’t stop here anymore ?
It’s even getting worse than here in California. One State Supreme court judge was asked if we had the right to defend ourselves from an attacker. She answered “I don’t know
if we have that right”. Gheee! I liked the case I read about a man in Great Britan fought off
a couple of thieves at his farm injuring one of them. The court punished the farmer, said he should have yelled for help from the police. The farmer lived 2 miles from the nearest house!
In reply to the comment that Arnold has the right idea….take away the ammo and guns are useless. Do you realize how long that would take to be true?
Several generations, I know that. All the ammo here today can be reloaded over and over. If everyone conserve ammo, it would have plenty 200 yrs from now!