What Happens When You Load Pistol Powder in a Rifle Cartridge
This is a grim tale. A man almost lost the use of his right hand, and did suffer terrible injuries to his fingers. All because he picked the wrong bottle of powder off the shelf.
Similar Labels, Disasterous Consequences
The shooter, Denny K., was assembling some rounds for his brand new 7mm-08 Savage hunting rifle. He thought he was loading with Hodgdon Varget. Instead he had filled his powder measure with Hodgdon TiteGroup, a fast-burning pistol powder. The labels are similar, so the mistake is understandable. But the results were devastating. Here’s what 41 grains of TiteGroup can do in a 7mm-08:
Posting on the Firing Line, in a thread entitled “Lucky to Be Alive”, Denny writes:
“This is the hardest post to post. I know if I had read it a week ago my comment would have been: ‘You have no business reloading’. I had everything perfect, except pouring the wrong powder in the powder measure. I type this slowly with my left hand, embarrassed but … possibly saving someone else a tragedy or, like me, a long drive to the Emergency Room and surgery to save my finger.”
CLICK HERE for bigger, more graphic photo of injury.
The Still-Sealed Bottle of Varget
Denny did not initially comprehend exactly why the kaboom happened. He thought maybe his new Savage rifle was at fault. Then, on his return home, he discovered something…
Denny wrote: “The seven-hour period it took to go to ER, transport to Trauma Center and surgery made me think it was a Savage rifle issue. Brand new rifle, new brass, triple-checked loading data. The next day I was humbled when I realized the Varget powder was still sealed.
I knew what powder to use. I thought [Varget] was what I used. Not until the following day did I realize the Varget was still sealed.”
At that point, Denny realized what caused the accident — “operator error”. He knew he had to warn others about using the wrong powder: “I knew I needed to share my mistake, even though it is embarrassing, just to remind people. I’ve been reloading for 30 years…”
Editor’s Comment: Denny was not a novice reloader. His experience demonstrates that this kind of mistake can be made by any hand-loader, even one with decades of experience. Be safe guys, take your time when you load your ammo. Remove powders from measures after your loading sessions (pistol powders can look very similar to rifle powders). And by all means CHECK the LABEL on the jug. As the TiteGroup label says: “A little goes a long way.”
It’s not a bad idea to separate your pistol powders from your rifle powders, or perhaps even load for pistol in a separate part of your workshop.
Similar Posts:
- Pistol Powder in a Rifle Cartridge — The Handloader’s Nightmare
- Bloody Disaster — Loading Pistol Powder in Rifle Case
- Blood and Gore — Injury After Pistol Powder Loaded in Rifle Case
- Pistol Powder in Rifle Case — Yes It Was a Bloody Disaster
- Hodgdon and ADI Powder Equivalents
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I had a similar (though not as disastrous) mishap with VV N165 vs N140 – packaging identical apart from a smallish number. While it was all my own fault, this could be avoided with more sensible labelling e.g. very large numbers, or better, distinctive color coding. Some powder brands do this well.
Thank God he wasn’t killed…or anyone nearby either!!
First off glad your OK,had to be a very scary time. Im glad you posted about the danger of wrong powders. For years my dad reloaded and always wanted me to learn more about an help with it so I would know what to do an how to do it the right way. But as a kid everything else was more important. Now that my dad has passed away I find my self shooting more with friend an family.Now as in was always told keep your brass, so with all this brass its new learning curve to start an try to reload all this brass from multiple calibers. Ive been doing lots of reading an starting to reload with another person who has knowledge on how to. But your story is a very good reminder on how to be careful and take your time to make sure your using the proper powder. Thanks it a eye opener
Separating powder is always good. Also, always label what powder is in your powder hopper.
Why was the pistol powder so devistating it has less pressure then rifle powder doesn’t it?
Editor: Pistol powder has a very fast burn rate, and it is designed for small charges (typically less than 7 grains). This chap probably put 40+ grains of TiteGroup in the cartridge, if this was a .308 Win. 40 grains represents more than six times the max TiteGroup load in a .44 Magnum pistol cartridge (with a 200 grain bullet).
It would go a long way towards ending this type of accident , if powder manufacturers got together and standardized a color code on the labeling or packaging , that would indicate the type of powder , and burn rate. IE…a white or red stripe around the label for the hottest powders , yellow for medium burn ,green ,then blue and black for the slowest burns. Just a thought.
It would go a long way towards ending this type of accident , if powder manufacturers got together and standardized a color code on the labeling or packaging , that would indicate the type of powder, and burn rate. IE…a white or red stripe around the label for the hottest powders, yellow for medium burn ,green ,then blue and black for the slowest burns. Just a thought. Maybe a one inch wide stripe around the jar.
Editor: There are some good suggestions there. Perhaps the lid itself could be red for pistol, blue for rifle and so on. But then, some powder are used for both rifle and pistol. Still, consistent labeling would be a useful safety measure.
Wow. Harsh lesson to learn.
Thanks for sharing this difficult lesson. It helps remind me that reloading can be fun and useful, but also unforgiving of even the smallest mistake. I hope you fully heal and recover quickly.
A fellow loaded 60 grains of 4198 in his newly chambered 25-06 Ackley, instead of the proper 4831. Ka-Boom. Brass removed from shooting eye; didn’t lose sight. Rifle didn’t disintegrate. Chamber swelled, locking lugs set back, face of bolt swelled and had to be driven back after barrel removed. If you are going to do something ESTREMELY stupid, shoot a Remington 700.
I bet I’m not the only one thinking “There but for the grace of God go I.”
They should be labeled very large, for either for rifles or handguns. It’s the manufacturer fault, for the labeling mistakes. This is why I buy from the factory and don’t reload
Alan, I am afraid it is a bit like making trigger pull heavier for more safety: no trigger pull is heavy enough for trigger happy Harry.
No label will be big enough. We simply have to be careful, check, and recheck.
Some people just shouldn’t reload.
You say he wasn’t a novice reloader? We have a problem then. Titegroup is a fairly fine spherical powder while Varget is an extruded powder. Not only do the labels on the bottles look NOTHING alike, neither do the powders. If this is an example of his attention to detail he has no business owning firearms let alone reloading for them. I have no sympathy for him.
Beg pardon, but the labels on those bottles look nothing alike. Not even close. If you believe that they do, then perhaps you should take up a new hobby.
So very glad that this fella didn’t lose his life/vision/digits, or those of a bystander. This sport is very unforgiving — full attention at all times, to every little step is required. To the fellas that stated the manufacturers are at fault for their labeling — really? There are many different types of powders, shall we assign a different colored animal to each powder? The numbers/names are more than adequate if one is paying attention.
he should find another hobby
Attention to detail is everything. I was loading on a Dillon 550 ( no auto index) and forgot I had already dropped 6gr of W231 into a 45 load calling for a max of 6.2gr. 12gr of W231 blew the Kimber out of my hands and disintegrated the sear,ejector,trigger bar, grips, and mag floor plate.Powder burns were fortunately my only injuries. That was 5 yrs ago. Have since taken an NRA reloading class, then certified as a metallic cartridge reloading instructor.
Maybe powder manufacturers could agree to red tops for rifle and yellow tops for pistol.
You get the idea, but it would work better if it was an industry standard.
Was the objective end of the scope ever found, or is it lost in space?
So glad our Lord was protecting you since this could have been a lot worse.
I have too have been loading for over 30 years and do live fire testing in the industry. I have all my handgun powders in a separate red cabinet, and rifle powders in a tan cabinet. Also, for each powder I have laminated cards to identify each and once the powder hopper in filled with powder that laminated card go in the hopper on the top of the powder so I know exactly what’s in there. I truly thank you for sharing and your honesty. I pray our Lord Jesus helps you make a full recovery and you continue with this wonderful sport we all enjoy so much. Don’t stop reloading, get back at it once you are recovered.
When I was studying chemistry in a madrassa in Indonesia, my teacher stressed the importance of always reading a label twice on a bottle: The first time you read what you WISH to read, the second time you read what IS actually written.
I would love for someone to estimate the pressures caused by a load like that!
The difference between Varget and Tite-groups is much larger thant he difference between 4198 and 4830.
In every reloading manual it states to have only one powder on the bench at a time. Along with a warning on almost every page to make sure your using the right components.
If there is any question about powder id it goes out in the lawn for fertilizer. Not sure how you don’t notice titegroup is a ball powder and varget is extruded tubular and look nothing alike.
The labels… One says titegroup one says varget! Color coding isn’t going to help if you can’t read the label that’s printed already!
Fellow is lucky that he just messed up a hand and didn’t get killed.
you can’t use color id on the lids because they could be switched to the wrong container. The container needs to be color coded, better yet color the powders. Humans make mistakes. I commend him for sharing his regrettable mistake. Don’t become complacent and double check all processes
Varget is formulated for light to medium powered rifles while Titegroup is formulated for pistols and shotguns, in a nutshell…. Lets say he loaded a 42 grain charge of Varget into his .308 then topped it off with a 175 grain bullet. His chamber pressure would be in the neighborhood of 55,000 PSI which is perfectly safe. Now, instead our hero here grabs a bottle of Titegroup ignoring the label on the bottle, pours it into his dispenser ignoring the fact is a spherical powder and not an extruded powder then loads up that same 42 grain charge. Because of the different burn rate, his chamber pressure is now in the neighborhood of 266,000 PSI. With 62,000 PSI being the upper limit for the .308, the rifle could not handle the pressure and blew up. He is lucky he didn’t die.
I’d suggest different shaped containers with different shaped labels for different types of powders. Round for pistol, square for rifle, maybe triangular for shotgun. Just coloring the lids or labels won’t do it since lids can get swapped and some people are colorblind.
Definitely a lack of attention to what he was doing since he should have instantly recognized the powder wasn’t varget as he poured it. Very fine vs extruded sticks. I suppose maybe he’d never loaded rifle before and never saw what an extruded powder looks like.
I too have wondered why the powder manufacturers do use a universal color code. Say red or yellow for handgun and grey or black for rifle.
I agree with Dan. I ALWAYS put a piece of tape on the measure and write on the tape the caliber I’m loading, the bullet, the powder, and the charge. Hopefully all that will alert me to something not right:
.45 ACP 230 gr FMJ
5.0 gr Unique
So far OK……
Ouch! I hand load and always go with reliable loading manuals. I do use Red Dot, which is normally a shotshell propellant, for .45 LC, .357 Mag. and .38 Spl. I tried these during the last (and still somewhat current) propellant shortage. All the bullets were Laser-Cast lead and I got the recipes from two sources (the Laser-Cast loading manual and the Alliant books.) I’m certainly not confident enough in my reloading abilities to experiment on my own. There’s too many variables involved with loading your own cartridges. I play drums as a hobby and the last thing I want is a slab of badly butchered meat at the end of my wrist.
I think some of your are too critical of Denny. No human is perfect, and in this case Denny is the one who paid the price for the mistake.
I do believe though, that every person is responsible for his own safety. I you think your powder needs to be color coded, get yourself a permanent marker in several colors and mark your powder.
My practice is to use a dedicated shelf for the powders I am using frequently. I place the powders to the rear of the shelf, except for the one I am presently using. I pull it to the front edge of the shelf so that I can tell in a moments glance what I am using, in case I get distracted or have to stop temporarily.
When I finish loading the batch, I unload the powder hopper into its original bottle, then move it back in its not-being-used position, BEFORE I start a different powder.
We each have our own methods which should work for us. Again, my safety is dependent ultimately on me.
Keep your jugs of rifle and pistol powder in two separate cabinets, that way their is less chance of a mix up.
One powder on the bench.
triple checked components
labeling being part of procedure verifying components throughout
bullets powder amounts bullet seating depths predetermined and part of labeling
Labeling with finished ammunition
and hard copy of data used and filed separately.
I don’t load for pistol only rifle but several calibers and lots of variety in bullets and powder. speed has never been a priority for myself always a balance scale and trickler. But for the grace of God there go I.
get well guy. I’ve consulted my quick load ballistic program with a 175 gr bullet (sierra) and tite group X 42 grains yields 248.497 PSI & estimated 3033 fps. col at 2.800″. these fest pistol powders should be avoided all together besides cowboy light loads like 45 ACP 38 spcl & others only using 2 -5 grains at max. AVI
feel bad for you. good to share maybe some one will be saved from this article
Color coding lids sounds like a good idea. However, No amount of color coding will replace attention to what you are doing. Manuals specifically state to read the can. Each can, every time again to make sure its what you want to use. No matter how many times you have done it, make sure you have the correct powder. If you can’t give each step your undivided attention, stop and come back to it when you can. Reloading is a fun and safe hobby for those who are willing to pay attention. Even factory ammo can have the wrong powder if the machine was not set right. My preference for a very light 9mm load is 3.2 grains of Unique weighed each and every time even if its time consuming as my powder measure likes to throw random charges by volume no matter how many times I(think)I fixed it. Usually too little and sometimes too much(over 4.o gr).
I was the one who made the mistake and also would have replied the same as some of you had I been reading this and not writing it.
I had never loaded Varget, had just picked it up to load my new 7mm O8.
The powders’ labels were not facing me while on the shelf, so the difference was not as easy to see as one would think.
No excuse at all, I had not reloaded pistols in years so should not have even kept that powder around.
I did put 41 grains of TiteGroup in a 7mm 08.
Never would have guessed I would have made that mistake. I was way too smart for something so stupid to happen to me, but it did.
Editor: Thanks for writing about your experience. Your willingness to share the facts of this incident will, hopefully, help many others avoid similar accidents in the future.
Happy to know the shooter survived. Awhile ago here (Denver) a friend of a friend experienced the same – similar – catastrophic failure due to a reloading error but he nearly died because the bolt of his rifle was not retained in the receiver which allowed it to hit him in the face and penetrate most of the way through his head. Just awful.
I have been reloading for 35 years and to this day, anytime I go to the range with a new load I have the thought that I’d really rather be behind a tree pulling a string for the first shots. So far so good, though, but the fear of having made an unconscious, destructive mistake is real.
Its as I tell my reloading classes, mistakes are made and everybody will make one sooner of later so PAY ATTENTION! and always be your own worst critic. Might save your life sometime.
Rob
dkyser, I give you full marks for your courage and candor in posting of this incident, especially in an area known to have little sympathy and much hostility for such an incident as this. I think in focusing in where your breakdowns happened will do a lot to help new and relatively inexperienced reloaders out there remember the dangers involved. When I teach new reloaders, I stress upon them the 3 stages of a reloader. The novice stage where a person is afraid of the consequences of an accident so pays close attention. The intermediate phase where the person is comfortable with reloading. Lastly the experienced phase where the person has respect for the consequences involved. That intermediate stage is the most dangerous time as the comfort builds complacency.
Again, thank you for sharing your experience with us in a known hostile environment.
Thank you so much for sharing. It takes great courage to share a mistake, but they are some of the most valuable lessons. I know both powders intimately and I would like to think I would have twigged on the fact i was working with a flaked instead of extruded powder. Were you using a progressive press?
Every time I see one of these threads on the gun forums, I Always read it. This allows the chance to pick up some clue or hint about how to avoid these terrible mistakes. I do applaud the writer for being brave enough to expose his mistake for the benefit of all reloaders.
Buy colored masking tape in two colors and mark the bottles when you bring them home, one color for rifle and one for pistol. Eliminates the biggest source of kabooms for a few pennies!
Have 2 cabinets. One for pistol, one for rifle.
Be glad you weren’t reloading for a 50 BMG Denny.
While showing a buddy my reloading setup, I double loaded a .45 acp – might have been a doubled 4.1 of titegroup if I recall. I shot that box of bullets in a Ruger P345 and the doubled load went over the chronograph with exactly twice the energy as normal. The Plastic framed Ruger stayed open and my hand tingled but needed little attention before going back into service. I’ve put more than 10K through it since.
I’m color blind so for the most part color coding the lids would be useless to me. But it’s a good idea none the less. Something else could be done to reduce the lids issue would be to make them in different sizes as well, one size for Rifle, another for Pistol. That way the lids couldn’t be mixed up. There are quite a few things the industry can do to reduce this type of mistake, but they still can’t fix human error or bravado. Hopefully he’ll recover and be able to shoot again.
Whenever I am loading I always do a triple check of components. I was taught only the powder in the measure be out and it sits right behind the press with the label facing me. This being said I’ve still dumped my fair share of powder (just to be safe)
I’m just starting to reload and plan to buy some sort of storage bins to store all my powders and reloading dies and such in different containers so I keep everything apart from each other. I know this is not full proof and I must check and recheck before loading each and every-time.
No amount of relabeling, storage tricks, etc., will compensate for strict attention to detail at the bench. It helps to be afraid. Fear makes you attentive.
I’m glad he was not hurt worse, and hopefully learned a valuable lesson. But, why is it every time WE make mistakes, it is someone else’s responsibility to come up with a solution? It was not the fault of the company. We must continually encourage safety first on sites such as this. Many newbies are out planning to reload, and they need to understand the possible dangers if not paying attention and being organized. I do agree though, that this could happen to anyone, new or experienced. Enjoy, but please be careful everyone.
Danny,
You went through a sobering experience. That is a mistake that any of us could make. We all need to use extreme caution.
I hope that you heal quickly and fully.